Author Topic: Jim Martin  (Read 108081 times)

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Offline jim martin

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Re: Jim Martin
« Reply #390 on: October 27, 2020, 06:36:50 PM »
 well we got off the line and covered 60' .
lets look at how I look at the rest of the info ,figured I would strip it down and add data in groups just to make it simpler to understand .
- BLUE , acceleration - GREEN , rpm  - YELLOW , clutch
first info box 54.72 sec is where the run begins so add 9.83 to 54.72 and you end at 1:4.55 sec. you can see the clutch line drops/disengaged after the run is over ,Why?
that is because you always drive full throttle past the quarter line then roll of the throttle .
if you follow the info boxes you can see the stage RPM and then following to right every shift rpm .as well as you can see Acceleration slowly drops down as the 1/4 mile run continues .
of course that is normal .
Question ? could you adjust what rpm to shift at if you follow Acceleration , yes you sure can and what im looking for is a major drop off and really if you draw a line across
the BLUE acceleration line its pretty smooth and steady drop .
YELLOW- clutch I have added to tracer lines , if it represents clutch fully engaged and disengaged why is there a difference in height
. easy I have my foot on the clutch pedal , take a look at staging /first gear .car launches and I shift 1.48 sec later .yes I still have my foot on the clutch pedal .its fully engaged I just have not allowed the clutch pedal to fully come back into the freeplay zone . then 2nd and 3rd I have more time and have let the pedal almost come back fully into freeplay zone and have my foot just resting on the clutch pedal and finallythen shifted into 4th foot is right off clutch pedal .



  time to look at PINK- voltage and RED -vacuum . BOOST - Light Green
PINK - Voltage , yes very important to know for all the obvious reasons - a steady voltage is required to support all the electronics especially ignition .
RED - Vacuum (crankcase) I have learned more from this than anything and I have played with this for over 10 years , I know what works and what doesn't as well as what's important  , I've added 2 trace lines ,the bottom dotted Blue line represents 0 pressure and the Red dotted upper line represents the max Crankcase pressure .
 FYI: 1 inHgVac is= 0.5 Psi so yes I go from -12 inhgvac to + 8 inhgvac ( 4 psi) not Bad but not Good either and I know why .
 so it is caused by a few things which im well aware of .
First my GZ  vacuum pump that I've been running for years is in need of some help , I know it needs service and is not pulling full vacuum .its tested by deadheading the inlet at say about 2500 pump rpm , it should pull 15" vac but I only pull 10" .yep its a tad tired .
 then my 2 psi  crankcase backup blow off valve was temp re-shimmed as I was checking for correct sealing ( I thought I had a internal sealing issue ) .usually the valve pops open at 1.5-2psi and dumps Any Crankcase excessive pressure ,but as you can see did not happen do to re-shimming and I was depending on vacuum pump only .
and finally why is there crankcase pressure anyway , well that's what happens when inside the case pressure can't get out and I would assume after looking at the data my tired vacuum pump could not keep up and was actually a restriction . there always is and it shows I have some blow-by past the rings , not bad for dumping in 20 psi boost in a 9.8:1 compression methanol turbo engine . if I run less than 10 psi boost it hold below 0 , Nice .
 So Ring seal . the motors been together for 2 years and has a lot of milage/high load passes , and I was watching my Crankcase pressure slowly rise over time which is the biggest indication of loss of ring seal or wearing vacuum pump .
 Now I do/can  run the motor without the vacuum pump by replacing the inlet hose  that usually runs  from the alternator stand outlet to the vacuum pump inlet by directly connecting the alternator stand outlet to the dry sump tank inlet and I measure no crankcase positive pressure that way , but I like the pump as it keeps my oil clean of methanol milking due to rich mixtures and prevents engine oil leaks .
  Well  , GREAT Vacuum data , lots to learn from . is it really a issue , Yes and No .should the motor stay below the set 10-12 inhgvac the complete pass , Yes it should but turbo methanol motors due to hugely rich mixtures are known to loose vacuum over the run .
So if and when I send the pump back to GZ for service and replace the spring in my Crankcase dump valve it in fact my motor Crankcase Pressure may in fact be not that Bad .
BUT wait there is more on this or reasons for this . gotta love data



DARK GREEN -  Fuel Pressure  - now remember im running old school Hilborn Mechanical fuel injection (MFI) now that's another topic but for now what you need to know is , when the engines rotates so does the MFI pump which is mechanically connected to the motor ,So the faster the motor turns so does the MFI pump .which also means it generates fuel pressure at a linear rate to engine rpm , so more RPM more pressure /volume .
the pump is generating about 30 psi over the useful RPM range to a max of 80psi , the pressure sensor is connected between the MFI pump and the barrel valve . which is also display in the car on my ashtray LED  readout . pump is in great shape .

DARK BROWN - AFR , now this in in the methanol scale not gasoline scale  but what im looking at is in fact the total AFR number and does it trend Rich or Lean especially in the top of 4th gear under high boost ,remember I've melted my heads 2x due to lean so im schooled on safe (liking that 3.5-3.7 range ) . and you can see if you follow along in 4th gear it trends rich , GREAT that's what I want to see .


« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 04:57:52 PM by jim martin »




the 'WOK" June 2006 Hot VW's feature car  9.830 sec at 143.44 mph.
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Offline jim martin

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Re: Jim Martin
« Reply #391 on: November 02, 2020, 04:56:56 PM »
closer look at the AFR , added 2 tracer lines .avg's 3.75:1 until the top end of 4th gear wear it trends down ( richer ) to 3.6:1 .
this is like I said very important as we need the extra fuel to keep the heat down as well as to support the extra cylinder  pressure .







the 'WOK" June 2006 Hot VW's feature car  9.830 sec at 143.44 mph.
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Offline jim martin

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Re: Jim Martin
« Reply #392 on: November 02, 2020, 10:40:46 PM »
closer look at the AFR , added 2 tracer lines .avg's 3.75:1 until the top end of 4th gear wear it trends down ( richer ) to 3.6:1 .very very good !!!
this is like I said very important as we need the extra fuel to support the extra load and boost.
 ok but how is this possible the engine is jetted for a NA 2442cc on alcohol . so the MFI pump volume and pressure increases with engine RPM. ok for a 2442 NA but .not a boosted 2442 it needs like 2.5 x the fuel volume .
MEDIUM BLUE , "A" VALVE , this is the returning fuel pressure . huh? . a bit more info.
    the "A" valve is connected inline with the fuel return line to the tank , its controlled by turbo boost pressure then restricts the returning fuel to the tank .which raises the main system pressure and volume . so yes the 'A" valve is a boost controlled enrichment valve .and the data is read by a pressure sensor tee'd into the boost sensor return line .
 I use the 'A' valve pressure sensor data to tune my high speed fuel cut-off  and loaded fuel trim .
BROWN - EGT , I added one cylinders get trace as its easier to understand .looking at it from start to Finnish we see a temperature rise from around 600 deg to 1091 deg f .
using that information is simple .first you slowly creep up on timing and mixtures while watching your EGT numbers and every time pull your plugs .soon you will figure out by relating spark plug reading to EGT number and once you have that nailed down its easy .basically you are setting your mixture and timing with plug readings and using EGT data to back up your state of tune  .
so lets say half way in 4th gear where we have a reading of 984 degF the EGT temperature start to drop (cool) that would be a indication you are too rich and say your EGT from that point rise to say 1300 degF that would be a indication at that point you are going dangerously lean .
my target max EGT temp is 1200 degF , that is my known assumed safe EGT temp ,have I pushed it yes and the net difference is not worth the risk of meltdown .
this is where Methanol shines over gasoline .you can be way over rich and loose just a tad of H.P but with gasoline it would just fall on its face .
so when in doubt start rich and adjust from there .
 now you start to see how all things effect another and relate to another and tunning is a process and without data it can be a headache but with data you can make good choices and see the results instantly





the 'WOK" June 2006 Hot VW's feature car  9.830 sec at 143.44 mph.
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Offline jim martin

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Re: Jim Martin
« Reply #393 on: November 03, 2020, 12:16:10 PM »
last one .
all 4 EGT's and Vacuum
PINK , vacuum - L GREEN , Boost - GREEN , rpm - YELLOW , clutch (inverted this time flat lie is engaged bottom peak clutch disengaged/shift)
PURPLE #4 egt
L BLUE  #2 egt
BROWN #3 egt
RED.     #1 EGT
 So I see #4 &#2 are running the hottest and #2 follows the exact path but like 75 deg cooler
also #3 &#1 are almost the same but way cooler and then around 4th gear catch up .
  what's the issue ?
so are #4&#2 the correct egt numbers or are #3&#1 correct ?
possibilities are :
- cylinders #1 and 3 are running cooler due to lack of combustion due to say poor ring seal which could also be the reason for the higher crankcase pressure.
- cylinder #4 has a intake leak:
- cylinder #2 is ok as is #4 but is a tad richer due to a emergency injector nozzle replacement due to leakage and its not a flow matched nozzle
- linkage or throttle blades twisted so 2 cylinders are running  richer due to less air and takes awhile / time in 4th gear for them to be open long enough that it no longer is a issue and it stabilizes.
  you can see there are many paths to chase .
so what to do in order check :
check older data from year earlier and check past vacuum and egt readings to compare against  , perform cyl compression and leakage , pull all nozzles and check for debris , bore scope all cylinders for wear , flow check all 4 nozzles , pull motor and repair .




so now you see what I look at and how important data is ,and if you keep constant data logs you can track engine performance and wear ,as well as make adjustments and tune correctly by
making changes from your data results .
 so what has been learned over the last 2 years this engine has been together . well its logged over 75 hard passes without mechanical falure , does not leak oil , does not puke oil out breather, is very tunable and a consistent performer ,  and allowed me to experiment and learn along the way .
motor is finally at the point id say its solid / reliable and in a great state of tune , yes heads , ring seal and vacuum pump are getting a bit tired but even still is capable of running
low 10's and 9.8 second passes consistently .
so im thinking with some engine maintenance both mechanical and inspection and hey even a upgrade or 2 it should be good for more fast times.

« Last Edit: November 03, 2020, 03:09:31 PM by jim martin »




the 'WOK" June 2006 Hot VW's feature car  9.830 sec at 143.44 mph.
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Offline jim martin

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Re: Jim Martin
« Reply #394 on: November 03, 2020, 03:18:07 PM »
Quest for the 9's list : TOPIC UPDATE AS OF TODAY 11/32020
- WELL pretty simple just needed to make a few small engine changes ,LOL .
you can see there has always been a constant direction with everything slowly moved fwd
toward building and tuning a Old School turbo motor but adding a few tricks.over time this power plant  has taken more abuse than you could
ever imagine and has been very reliable and a consistent performer ,This engine is still capable of easily putting out another
75-100 hp but for the time being i will just fine tune the state of tune im at now, making it more efficient
and Finnish Dialing-In the details .
  There is more than just having a motor than can put out some jam there needs to be a balance and the whole car needs
to work together , it just takes time.
presently the WOK is undergoing some upgrades again and will bring those up later .
 But will look at the list and think about what to bring up next.

 

.Trans inspected and new synchros and 1.00 4th gear
.Turbo repaired and upgraded with a billet inlet wheel and new exhaust housing ,header pipe fabricated
.New camshaft ,shorter duration more lift
.Engine inspected and overhauled
.k800 valve spring inspected and installed and readjusted
.EGT probes installed
.New REV6 clutch in ,tested and adjusted
.New intake fabricated
.Drysump oiling , done previously


- replace 4th gear and at same time replace all synchros and inspect trans, test new torco transaxle fluid
- go through motor and make sure its solid
- replace valve springs and reset spring pressure
- install EGT temp probes
- modify fuel system for high speed lean out
- upgrade clutch system to rev6
- repair damaged turbo and discuss options
- perform options to turbo and upgrade inlet to billet wheel and eplace exhaust housing
- fabricate new exhaust outlet pipe
- fabricate new intake manifold
- clean and simplify engine wiring and pipework
- test new ECMS ,clutch management system focus on consistent low 60 foot times.
- rewire complete car electronics
- fabricate and wire completely new data logging system
- tune new fuel curve as per new EGT data and work on aggressive but safe tune
- replace frt and rear shocks
- replace rear torsion bars
- dry sump oil system
- vacuum pump
- MFI
- reset and alter alignment specs for new speed
- finish testing new night-stick select shifter
- replace camshaft and not because I wanted to but had to
haul ass and go fast

this list will help me go through topics and can cross a few more off now
 looks like its shock time




the 'WOK" June 2006 Hot VW's feature car  9.830 sec at 143.44 mph.
Sponsored by : LUCAS OIL PRODUCTS   www.lucasoil.com
KROC head porting services
Dialedinp

 

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