Shortening Tie Rods Anyone ?

[AirCooledRules]

I have the 3\" narrowed beam in my car right now and i need to shorten the tie rods, problem is i dont have a tap big enough.

I went to 2 machine shops just now and 1 wont take the risk, and the second guy said he would charge me a minimum of $70 plus the actual time it takes, and thats for each. so thats bullshit.

has anyone done this on their own, has a tap, or can help me out ?

Otherwise, can you point me towards a machine shop that will do it and not charge me a arm & a leg plus my pants. ?

Thanks.

[dannyboy]

heres the low-tech, sorta low buck method

go out and buy a tap (i think its a 12 or 14 mm) kbc tools on annacis island is a good source, bout 20 bucks..

i like to tap the tie-rod first as deep as possible to make sure that once you cut off the end there are still some threads left to tap further.
take the tie-rod, and cut the required amount off (you can use a hack-saw, cut-off wheel, bandsaw, chop saw....whatever you have)
ask a parent to help if your not allowed to use tools
now if you have the style of tierod that has slits in the ends you have to elongate them , you can use the hacksaw, bandsaw, or a small cut off wheel
now, run the tap back through to clean up the threads and make sure the tie-rod can thread all the way in

rinse and repeat on the other tie-rod
it will take you about an hour, and you dont have to bother any more machine shops
try not to cut off your fingers!

[silas]

i have also heard of people cutting the required length out of the middle of the tie-rod, and placing a sleeve inside the tie-rod for strength, and welding it back together. chamfer the ends that you will be welding and make sure you get good penetration. you dont need to re-tap the ends, you just need to find a sleeve and make sure that when you weld the tie-rod back together that it is straight and true.

allthough it's an option, i still think the \"cut the ends & tap method\" is better in the long run.

[AirCooledRules]

The weld method is definetly not a good way to go and is pretty dangerous. By welding the steel it is weakened severely, and that is not something anyone should be playing with when you are tampering with the parts that connect your steering to your wheels.

Again, if anyone knows a place that can do it, please let me know.  

[Cameron]

You're narrowing your beam three inches? Cut one and a half inches off each tie rod. Make sure it's the end that has right hand threads. Then re-tap the end that you just cut. Tap needed is M14 x 1.5. Best to cut the tie rods in a lathe. But in a pinch,  you can use a hack saw, and clean up the ends with a file or grinder afterwards.  

[silas]

The weld method is definetly not a good way to go and is pretty dangerous. By welding the steel it is weakened severely, and that is not something anyone should be playing with when you are tampering with the parts that connect your steering to your wheels.

Again, if anyone knows a place that can do it, please let me know.

yah...you're right.

EVERYONE....STOP WELDING. IT'S TOO DANGEROUS.

thanks for the heads up.  

[dannyboy]

holy shit! everything on my car has been WELDED together
its so severely weakened i think its ready to fall apart :lol:  

[Lanny]

I can shorten them no problem, I've done dozens over the years. Call me 604-202-7810

[Mowser]

Ahh Lanny, there ya go taking all the fun outta waiting to hear from Jakub after he's cut the wrong end, wounded himself several times, and then gotten the entire works f***ed up beyond repair.

Damn dude it's an hour of your time and a little physical labour.  Even your arms can surely withstand an hours work.  I'm sure your wrists are strong... or at least one is.

[Jeremy]

I have to do this to my tie rods in the '59 but I was taking a look at them and the short arm doesn't seem to have any adjustment to it like the long one does. The tie rod ends  just seem to be pinched on from the factory. What are my options here? Sorry don't mean to highjack this thread.

[AirCooledRules]

umm, i know what needs to be done. I do not have the tool to do the job, and i dont want to purchase the tool for a job im going to do once and never again.

Thanks lanny, ill call you in a couple days, i have to remove the second tie rod, its still in the car.

[dannyboy]

im fairly certain all the aftermarket beetle tie-rods sold by cip are adjustable on both the short and long side, so it might be as easy as buying new ones and shortening them.
or you can do the cut &weld method, if DONE PROPERLY would be plenty strong.
imho you might aswell replace the tie-rods when you do your beam anyways....
-danny

[dannyboy]

I do not have the tool to do the job, and i dont want to purchase the tool for a job im going to do once and never again.

to each their own...
but dood, its 25 bucks!
you never know when your going need the tap again,
think about it this way, you do it once for yourself, gain the knowledge/skill  to do something you werent able to do before, save the money that you would have paid someone else to do the job, then the next time your buddy needs it done, you can charge him a few bucks , and break even. but then your ahead cause you have a free tool.
does this not make sense or am i losing my freakin mind here?!?
end rant.

[AirCooledRules]

Yup, it makes sense. Thats if its 25 bucks, maybe its 35, or 40, then add tax, the time you spent, add the money spent on penetrating oil, and it gets up to 50ish for a tool im hardly likely to use.

again, it makes sense.  

[dannyboy]

m14x1.5 taper tap
part no: 1-373-080t price: $14.04

4 oz tap magic tapping fluid
part no: 1-444-10004e price $2.66

kbc tools
604-540-0460

[Mowser]

Jakub your an idiot.  Danny is right on point with this one.  Anyway you look at it it's gonna cost you $25 bucks.  What's the going rate to have a friend to something for you.  Even if they don't want anything I've always offered something along the lines of a case of beer.  What's that worth these days?  Oh yeah, around $25

You're just being a lazy little F***.  Use the number Danny gave you, take the drive and learn something you didn't know before.  It actually feels good to do something for yourself.  Or wouldn't you know that already???

[silas]

Danny is right on point with this one.

i agree. impeccable logic.

[Chris]

Jakub cant reply right now he's busy practising his new dance routine!

[Stephan Schmidt]

Who cares if he doesn't want to buy the tool.  If its so cheap, just go and buy one for him since its no big deal.

Sheesh

Good on the people who are actually helping him out (Lanny).

Stephan

[silas]

Good on the people who are actually helping him out (Lanny).

actually stephan, nearly everyone that has responded to this thread is helping him out.

it just seems like he's decided to get someone to do them for him, rather than invest a little time and money in the project and learn to do it himself.

but that's ok. to each his own.

[Stephan Schmidt]

Good on the people who are actually helping him out (Lanny).

actually stephan, nearly everyone that has responded to this thread is helping him out.

it just seems like he's decided to get someone to do them for him, rather than invest a little time and money in the project and learn to do it himself.

but that's ok. to each his own.

well, then some people who are being stupid with their replies should stop pissing around.  some people pay to get work done and that shouldn't matter to anyone.

 

[Mowser]

Get your head outta yer ass Stephan, we've been trying to help him since the beginning of March on this particular subject.  Don't even try to play dumb cause you even responded on that post too.  You've deleted it but is was something to do with you being pissed off for not being payed (traded parts) for that particular beam.

Refresh your narrow mind:

http://www.airspeedparts.com/community-for...=ST&f=4&t=10845

Also I haven't seen him step up and even ask to \"borrow\" someones tap.  Not that anyone would now.  He's looking for someone to do the work for him and I don't blame him.  He's obviously not capable of doing it himself.  What gets me is that you are getting on our case asking us to buy the tools for him when he's gonna spend WAY more to get them done elsewhere.  What colour is the sky in your world?

 

[AirCooledRules]

Im more then capable to do this on my own, not that its any of your business. Ive drilled, tapped, made repairs and made my own tools before. That doesnt matter.

Ive got what i needed out of this thread already, looking forward to rolling in the beetle big time.  

P.S. moser, get your head out of your ass, your advice isnt worth the paper i wipe my ass with, not that you have any useful advice to give anyways.

[Stephan Schmidt]

Jakub's mix up with me was not related to him entirely, it was a complicated deal with a few people and we got stuck in the middle of it.

Before you get ahead of yourself, know what you are talking about before you blurt out information that you don't even know about.  

this thread needs to die and pipe down.

once again, so what, people usually spend more money getting something repaired by other people.  have you ever had car your car repaired by someone?  possibly something on your house? have you boughten a product or service that someone has made money on?  well there might have been a cheaper way to do it yourself.  

 

[dannyboy]

never mind, not even worth the trouble....
keep skipping along in your own little world....

[Mowser]

Im more then capable to do this on my own, not that its any of your business. Ive drilled, tapped, made repairs and made my own tools before. That doesnt matter.

P.S. moser, get your head out of your ass, your advice isnt worth the paper i wipe my ass with, not that you have any useful advice to give anyways.

Bring it on you little terd.  What advise would that be?  And since you brought it up I've seen the advise you've given dating back to LONG BEFORE this forum was around.  It takes a real piece of work to have a club named after you.

Yes it does in deed matter.  You were given a cheap way to fix without having to weld (cause that would weaken your car), if you are capable then this was a viable solution where everybody wins.  Your buddy decided to go on the defensive and I stepped up to bat.

  The only advise I gave on this thread was to do as Dannyboy advised and to agree with Sila's comment.  After that I've been commenting on Stephans comments.

as Dannyboy mentioned....  keep skipping along in your own little world....

[Jeremy]

The weld method is definetly not a good way to go and is pretty dangerous. By welding the steel it is weakened severely, and that is not something anyone should be playing with when you are tampering with the parts that connect your steering to your wheels.

Again, if anyone knows a place that can do it, please let me know.

I don't know if I agree with you on the cut and weld method. If you cut and put a good long sleeve in there and weld it up properly it should be as strong as ever. You could even drill a couple holes a few inches from the joint in the tie rod and plug weld it as well if you were worried about the weld failing at the joint. You should check your front beam because it is probably cut and welded as well and apparently \"by welding the steel it is weakened severely.\" Welding has been around for a 100 years and if it severely weekened the steel I doubt it would still be used today to built bridges, highrises, cars, etc.  Just my 2 cents.  

Jeremy

P.S. You could always braise it back together if you were worried about welding. Just kidding.

[Mike Scott]

By welding the steel it is weakened severely

Not that is matters, but you're wrong. The heat involved in welding can put residual stresses into the material being welding, however, welds are often capable of developing the full strength of the connecting members.

I dont understand why you feel it neccesary to put untrue information in your posts. I created a sample response for you, that may be less annoying.

Silas,

Thanks for the cut and splice idea, doesnt seem like the best way to go IMO. I've heard welding severely weakens steel, anyone know if this is true?

Regards,
Jacob

BTW, If anyone ever needs the 14 x1.5 metric tap, I have one you can borrow, somewhere

Mike

 

[Bubba]

The key to successful welding is to use proper procedures for the materials being joined.  The difficulties most people have with joining two components together by welding is the relatively simplistic approach to the process.  

Often, they do not consider the material properties, relative weldability, pre/post heat, welding consumeables, processes, etc.

In almost 30 years of welding inspection, I have seen pretty well everything with respect to what to do, and especially what not to do.

Just my .02

Csaba

[Mike Scott]

Bubba,

Time to mag particle some welds?

Mike