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Offline James Buchan

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« on: January 18, 2007, 09:19:56 AM »
If you haven't seen it yet you must rent the DVD!

http://www.climatecrisis.net/

Cindy and I watched it last night and all I can say is WOW!

Russ

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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2007, 10:15:04 AM »
he has some pretty compelling arguments.
it was an eye opener for sure

Offline piercedvw

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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2007, 10:54:10 AM »
What's the just of it?

Offline James Buchan

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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2007, 11:10:47 AM »
Global warming; basically Al Gore went around and collected information and visuals of various world glaciers and such and has compiled a documentary outlining where we were as a civilization 100+ years ago and the degree that we have changes world climates over that period. It's shocking how much mankind has affected weather and global temperatures since 1970. It seriously sent a shiver down my back thinking that within our lifetime we could very well see world ocean levels raise 20 feet...

It's a shame that Bush got in instead of Gore - the world would be a much different place with him in charge of the country that produces 30+% of the global pollution in the atmosphere.

 

Offline Cameron

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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2007, 04:21:40 PM »
I would not worry too much about what Al Gore has to say. He's a politician, not a scientist. His credibilty is about the same as a used car salesman.

Global warming is happening, the average temperature on this planet has increased by half a degree C. I don't believe all the doom and gloom predictions that some people are preaching. For every scientist you find, that says the planet is in doom, I can find one that says the world will not end.

Here's a start, an article from Tuesday's National Post. Written by a Canadian professor.
-------------------------------------------

Climatic hubris: The Ellesmere Island ice shelves have been disappearing since they were first mapped in 1906

Fred Michel, National Post

Published: Tuesday, January 16, 2007

On Saturday evening, the science director of the David Suzuki Foundation told CBC Newsworld that world scientists agree, we must act now \"to stabilize the Earth's climate.\" We have heard a similar refrain for years. We are told over and over that the rise in temperatures during the 1990s is accelerating the rate of melt of our polar ice caps as never before and worldwide flooding will wash away coastal settlements. Droughts, hurricanes, pestilence and all forms of calamity will be upon us and future generations if we do not reduce our carbon dioxide emissions that, so they say, is causing global warming.

A couple of nights earlier on CBC News, Andrew Weaver of the University of Victoria asserted with respect to recent events, \"[This] is nothing -- wait 'til 2050. This is scary. I mean the kind of climate change in store in the next 50 to 100 years is equivalent to the climate change that existed between when the dinosaurs roamed the Earth in the Cretaceous and today. That's 60 million years of climate change happening in a hundred years!\"

Besides the fact that the mass extinction that wiped out most of the dinosaurs was actually 66 million years ago, Weaver apparently also does not realize that in those millions of years the climate has been extremely variable, ranging from nearly tropical in polar regions to ice sheets covering much of North America and Europe. This period also saw changes from some of the highest sea levels ever to some of the lowest.

In late December, the media expressed shock as a large piece of ice shelf on the north end of Ellesmere Island in the Canadian Arctic broke off and created seismic waves. It was reported that 90% of the northern ice shelves had now been lost. Not mentioned was the fact that this is an ongoing, albeit intermittent event. Since the ice shelves were first mapped in 1906, they have been gradually disappearing. In fact, research papers on this ice shelf, published in 1986 and 2001 by Dr. Martin Jeffries of the University of Alaska, show that by 1962 roughly 60% of the ice shelf had already disappeared. Since then, an additional 30% has broken away with a larger loss than the most recent one occurring about 30 years ago. In other words, 60% of the ice shelf was lost in the first 56 years of this period (over 1% per year) versus 30% in the last 44 years (or 0.67% per year). Is that acceleration? Before today's global warming hype, Jeffries reported that \"the coincidence of tidal and seismic events in 1962 created a critical condition that caused the ice shelf calving.\" He concluded that further losses were to be expected.

In the work I have been involved with on Bylot Island in the eastern Canadian Arctic, we have found a fairly continuous glacier retreat of 40 to 50 meters per year since the late 1940s when air photos were first taken. Clearly, this retreat is nothing new -- it is a long-term response to natural variations in climate. The Little Ice Age from the 1400s to the mid-1800s was the coldest period in the past millennium, cold enough to allow skating on the canals and rivers of England and mainland Europe. Before that it was much warmer - 6,000 years ago during the 'climatic optimum' the Canadian Arctic was perhaps as much as 3C to 5C warmer than today. Then, the depth of thaw of the upper permafrost was much more than we see today.

Last year, when a conference was held at Tuktoyaktuk on the shores of the Beaufort Sea, news reports blamed global warming for the massive coastal erosion that is endangering the community. However, research has documented that such erosion has been occurring along this part of the Mackenzie Delta at a rate of tens of meters per year for centuries, if not millennia. At one time the community would have been kilometers from the coast. The shores of this region are ice-rich and susceptible to erosion by waves and warm temperatures. What we are witnessing is natural, ongoing change and certainly nothing new.

The success of the human species has been largely due to its ability to adapt to environmental changes. With the evolution of megacities, we now seem to feel that we are powerful enough to change the environment at our whim. Hurricane Katrina's devastating impact on New Orleans should have been a wake-up call to the fact that we must still be ready to adapt to environmental change, including climate variations. Instead, it has been used by alarmists to promote their impossible goal of \"stopping climate change.\" In reality, climate is constantly changing and will continue to change no matter what we do.

We need to put our energies and resources into solving real environmental problems -- air, water and land pollution, the loss in biodiversity, and urban sprawl, to name just a few. \"Stabilizing the Earth's climate\" as suggested by Suzuki's science director, is sheer fantasy. Its time to chill out on climate change hysteria.

Dr. Fred Michel, an advisor to the

Natural Resources Stewardship Project (nrsp.com), is the director of the Institute of Environmental

Science and Associate Professor in the Department of Earth Sciences at Carleton University in Ottawa.



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Offline 68IIIbuggy

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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2007, 04:46:04 PM »
Quote
I would not worry too much about what Al Gore has to say. He's a politician, not a scientist. His credibilty is about the same as a used car salesman.

Global warming is happening, the average temperature on this planet has increased by half a degree C. I don't believe all the doom and gloom predictions that some people are preaching. For every scientist you find, that says the planet is in doom, I can find one that says the world will not end.

Here's a start, an article from Tuesday's National Post. Written by a Canadian professor.
-------------------------------------------

Climatic hubris: The Ellesmere Island ice shelves have been disappearing since they were first mapped in 1906

Fred Michel, National Post

Published: Tuesday, January 16, 2007

On Saturday evening, the science director of the David Suzuki Foundation told CBC Newsworld that world scientists agree, we must act now "to stabilize the Earth's climate." We have heard a similar refrain for years. We are told over and over that the rise in temperatures during the 1990s is accelerating the rate of melt of our polar ice caps as never before and worldwide flooding will wash away coastal settlements. Droughts, hurricanes, pestilence and all forms of calamity will be upon us and future generations if we do not reduce our carbon dioxide emissions that, so they say, is causing global warming.

A couple of nights earlier on CBC News, Andrew Weaver of the University of Victoria asserted with respect to recent events, "[This] is nothing -- wait 'til 2050. This is scary. I mean the kind of climate change in store in the next 50 to 100 years is equivalent to the climate change that existed between when the dinosaurs roamed the Earth in the Cretaceous and today. That's 60 million years of climate change happening in a hundred years!"

Besides the fact that the mass extinction that wiped out most of the dinosaurs was actually 66 million years ago, Weaver apparently also does not realize that in those millions of years the climate has been extremely variable, ranging from nearly tropical in polar regions to ice sheets covering much of North America and Europe. This period also saw changes from some of the highest sea levels ever to some of the lowest.

In late December, the media expressed shock as a large piece of ice shelf on the north end of Ellesmere Island in the Canadian Arctic broke off and created seismic waves. It was reported that 90% of the northern ice shelves had now been lost. Not mentioned was the fact that this is an ongoing, albeit intermittent event. Since the ice shelves were first mapped in 1906, they have been gradually disappearing. In fact, research papers on this ice shelf, published in 1986 and 2001 by Dr. Martin Jeffries of the University of Alaska, show that by 1962 roughly 60% of the ice shelf had already disappeared. Since then, an additional 30% has broken away with a larger loss than the most recent one occurring about 30 years ago. In other words, 60% of the ice shelf was lost in the first 56 years of this period (over 1% per year) versus 30% in the last 44 years (or 0.67% per year). Is that acceleration? Before today's global warming hype, Jeffries reported that "the coincidence of tidal and seismic events in 1962 created a critical condition that caused the ice shelf calving." He concluded that further losses were to be expected.

In the work I have been involved with on Bylot Island in the eastern Canadian Arctic, we have found a fairly continuous glacier retreat of 40 to 50 meters per year since the late 1940s when air photos were first taken. Clearly, this retreat is nothing new -- it is a long-term response to natural variations in climate. The Little Ice Age from the 1400s to the mid-1800s was the coldest period in the past millennium, cold enough to allow skating on the canals and rivers of England and mainland Europe. Before that it was much warmer - 6,000 years ago during the 'climatic optimum' the Canadian Arctic was perhaps as much as 3C to 5C warmer than today. Then, the depth of thaw of the upper permafrost was much more than we see today.

Last year, when a conference was held at Tuktoyaktuk on the shores of the Beaufort Sea, news reports blamed global warming for the massive coastal erosion that is endangering the community. However, research has documented that such erosion has been occurring along this part of the Mackenzie Delta at a rate of tens of meters per year for centuries, if not millennia. At one time the community would have been kilometers from the coast. The shores of this region are ice-rich and susceptible to erosion by waves and warm temperatures. What we are witnessing is natural, ongoing change and certainly nothing new.

The success of the human species has been largely due to its ability to adapt to environmental changes. With the evolution of megacities, we now seem to feel that we are powerful enough to change the environment at our whim. Hurricane Katrina's devastating impact on New Orleans should have been a wake-up call to the fact that we must still be ready to adapt to environmental change, including climate variations. Instead, it has been used by alarmists to promote their impossible goal of "stopping climate change." In reality, climate is constantly changing and will continue to change no matter what we do.

We need to put our energies and resources into solving real environmental problems -- air, water and land pollution, the loss in biodiversity, and urban sprawl, to name just a few. "Stabilizing the Earth's climate" as suggested by Suzuki's science director, is sheer fantasy. Its time to chill out on climate change hysteria.

Dr. Fred Michel, an advisor to the

Natural Resources Stewardship Project (nrsp.com), is the director of the Institute of Environmental

Science and Associate Professor in the Department of Earth Sciences at Carleton University in Ottawa.


Offline buddy boy

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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2007, 04:46:35 PM »
i saw it , it's pretty interesting.

"only dead fish swim with the stream"

Offline kafer_kid86

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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2007, 05:36:05 PM »
on a lighter note i noticed there was a beetle in a scene with the traffic in the beginning of the trailer haha
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Offline Tom H.

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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2007, 05:37:56 PM »
Don't you remember the Al invented the internet?
     

Offline Bruce

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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2007, 08:04:34 PM »
Quote

  -- it is a long-term response to natural variations in climate. The Little Ice Age from the 1400s to the mid-1800s was the coldest period in the past millennium, cold enough to allow skating on the canals and rivers of England and mainland Europe.
The mini-ice age that happened 500 years ago is always omitted by the global warming alarmists.  By watching for this detail, you can tell if you are being manipulated.

Offline OUTKAST

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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2007, 08:26:14 PM »
Free to good home 4 feet of snow and all the ice you want can also send -14 weather :lol:  :lol:  

Offline moni

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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2007, 10:17:14 PM »
Quote
we could very well see world ocean levels raise 20 feet...
there goes richmond.
Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me, but deep down I know that's not true. Some smaller countries are neutral.


Offline Cameron

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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2007, 11:41:47 PM »
I see water rising is an issue for some forum members.  

In December, there was a press release from the Sierra Club. The Sierra Club was showing how much of Victoria would be under water, if the polar ice caps melted. Here is something I found in the Victoria Times Colonist.
--------------------------------------------

Published: Friday, December 08, 2006

I was saddened to see the silly and counter-productive Sierra Club of B.C. story showing Victoria at risk of being under 25 metres of water.

Climate change is a serious issue and it is alarming that an organization such as the Sierra Club would so overstate the case as to make it ridiculous.

It was even a greater concern from a professional perspective to see my name in the story as I work hard to try and give the public an accurate picture of this pressing problem.

The science suggests serious societal consequences of global warming in the short term, while the changes in sea level that the Sierra Club tout happen over thousands of years. This clumsy story just makes it easy for the deniers to claim there is no problem.

Andrew Weaver,

Professor and Canada research chairman, climate modelling and analysis,

University of Victoria.



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Offline 68IIIbuggy

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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2007, 04:32:58 PM »
Quote
the changes in sea level that the Sierra Club tout happen over thousands of years.
 
My point exactly. It's not going to happen overnight.

Offline Trevor P

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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2007, 05:32:35 PM »
We have a smart guy like David Suzuki telling us for years about how we are effecting our environment. Now Gore comes a long and makes a big movie about it, and all of a sudden people start to listen! Just goes to show how the attention span of todays society works.
Either way I feel pretty safe where I am....as long as they keep those F'n tornados in Kansas where they belong! ;)   :lol:  
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Offline Cameron

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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2007, 01:41:37 PM »
While surfing the net, I found these videos, on a Canadian website.

For those of you the have seen an \"Inconvenient Truth\", I suggest you watch these videos.

Includes some comments from scientists of the IPCC.

Best to right click, and save as...


http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/FOS_INTRO.wmv   4.76Mb

http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_2.wmv     16.3Mb

http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_3.wmv     7.82Mb

http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_4.wmv     12.4Mb

http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_5b.wmv    5.45Mb

 


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Offline Bug Maniac

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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2007, 09:12:25 AM »
Global warming is such a vast subject that brings in so many other subjects, air polution,car emissions, etc etc.
I think that the huge companies are the ones that need to be targeted!! As  for Gore who cares whether it's for political gain, at least he is doing something rather than sitting on his fat ass doing nothing, how many people say they are concerned about the enviroment then drive there big fat 4x4 to drop the kids off at school???
I tend to think of my kids in these type of debates, what will they miss out on and what hope for there kids.

Offline neil68

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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2007, 08:36:34 PM »
When I was in high school in the '70's, David Suzuki was telling us that another ice age was coming :huh:  
Neil
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Offline blarneyman

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« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2007, 09:56:37 PM »
Quote
we could very well see world ocean levels raise 20 feet...
 
Someone just built a five story condo building at Birch Bay just across the street from the beach. Maybe I should buy one of the top units and a Gondola. It would be just like Vienna :lol:  
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Offline Bruce

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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2007, 03:05:37 AM »
Quote
When I was in high school in the '70's, David Suzuki was telling us that another ice age was coming :huh:
Yep, I remember that too, although I don't recall who was pushing it.

Offline Cameron

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« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2007, 05:37:15 PM »
Quote
Someone just built a five story condo building at Birch Bay just across the street from the beach. Maybe I should buy one of the top units and a Gondola. It would be just like Vienna :lol:
Don't you mean Venice?


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Offline blarneyman

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« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2007, 07:19:37 PM »
:blush: Oops! :lol: I guess I was having a senior moment :P  
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Matt

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« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2007, 08:08:04 PM »
whats sad is I knew exactly what you were saying!! hey they both start with V's

Offline ehos

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« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2007, 09:26:06 PM »
Why did Canada sign Koyoto if we had no intention of ever following through?  It's the first time the US comes out looking brilliant (shocking) because at least they had the balls to just say 'NO.'

 

Offline neil68

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« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2007, 09:56:05 PM »
China and the USA produce over half of the world's atmospheric pollutants and neither is cutting back.  China is building a new coal-powered station every 5 days to meet their growing energy needs, but Kyoto does not require them to do anything significant to curb emissions...
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Offline moni

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« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2007, 10:53:43 PM »
Quote
Why did Canada sign Koyoto if we had no intention of ever following through?
federal Liberal government signed Kyoto and then started a few programs aimed at curbing GHG emissions (remember Rick Mercer's infomercial on the 'One Tonne Challenge'?). it's the federal Conservative government that never had any intention of following through with Kyoto, scrapping existing programs like One Tonne, etc. so Kyoto became a political pawn between two parties warring over power.

the beauty about politics? because of mounting public pressure, the Tories are now bringing back the very same programs initiated by the Grits that they themselves scrapped upon forming government because now, TA-DA, they recognize that global warming is an issue.

and of course this newfound love of environment programs/policy has NOTHING at all to do with the impending election...

nope. couldn't be that at all.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 10:54:47 PM by moni »
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Offline James Buchan

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« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2007, 07:44:02 AM »
It's all about getting voted in for the Fed's - but so be it, at least it's a big item on their agenda.

Where I work we create ALOT of waste and pollution. We have worked at curbing our impact for over a year now and I can see a big difference. We are even looking at Bio-D for our fleet. I hope other big employers out there are doing the same.

Offline Cameron

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« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2007, 08:13:29 AM »
Quote
federal Liberal government signed Kyoto and then started a few programs aimed at curbing GHG emissions (remember Rick Mercer's infomercial on the 'One Tonne Challenge'?). it's the federal Conservative government that never had any intention of following through with Kyoto, scrapping existing programs like One Tonne, etc. so Kyoto became a political pawn between two parties warring over power.

the beauty about politics? because of mounting public pressure, the Tories are now bringing back the very same programs initiated by the Grits that they themselves scrapped upon forming government because now, TA-DA, they recognize that global warming is an issue.

and of course this newfound love of environment programs/policy has NOTHING at all to do with the impending election...

nope. couldn't be that at all.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 08:47:54 AM by Cameron »


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Offline red snapper

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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2007, 08:18:51 AM »
Quote
Quote
we could very well see world ocean levels raise 20 feet...
 
Someone just built a five story condo building at Birch Bay just across the street from the beach. Maybe I should buy one of the top units and a Gondola. It would be just like Vienna :lol:
Blarneyman, by the time those places in Birch Bay are finished global warming should be in full effect. We have a place in behind them, must be union workers building them. :lol:  

Offline Cameron

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« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2007, 08:20:28 AM »
Quote
It's all about getting voted in for the Fed's - but so be it, at least it's a big item on their agenda.

Where I work we create ALOT of waste and pollution. We have worked at curbing our impact for over a year now and I can see a big difference. We are even looking at Bio-D for our fleet. I hope other big employers out there are doing the same.
James, while it's nice that you are burning a cleaner fuel, perhaps you can explain to us, how converting your fleet to bio-diesel, will lower your green house gas emissions.


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