Author Topic: Gcvws : Good But Not Good Enough.  (Read 4580 times)

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Offline AirCooledRules

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Gcvws : Good But Not Good Enough.
« on: August 21, 2006, 04:46:01 PM »
sorry about the title, i had a good time at the show as always, ive been going for over 10 years, and i always have a blast and i boast to everyone how our event is better then all the Washington events i go to every year, like the Leavenworth cruise, Water wagens, spring meet, DCI BBQ and others.

but this year i was very very disapointed when i saw how all the watercooled cars and classes were treated. i think we have the potential here to make the GCVWS the best show in the pacific northwest, and i think its slipping. make no mistake i respect all the work that goes into the show.

For example, there was no mk5 class ? and the cars have been out for over a year, also mk3 cars were split up and all over the place, there were mk4-5s parked inbetween each other, there wasnt enough space for the watercooled cars.

I think some things need to be done, such as Pre-Registration, and im sad to say we need judging. there are lots of people who come to the show from as far as manitoba, and oregon, and california, and im talking about the watercooled cars. 1975 + vw's arent just econobox a-b vehicles anymore, there were quite a few examples of very nicely restored and preserved early cars this year such as the yellow 1975 swollowtail from manitoba that come out and what beat him in his class. a flat black, back yard build 1984 rabbit. thats just sad.

I went to waterwagens at SIR last month, and ussually this show is alright, ive been going to it since the beggining when it was at its last venue very similar to our GCVWS, a few years ago they moved to SIR and i dont like the location much because theres no shade, its super hot all the time. but this year i was blown away buy the organization and amount of cars that show up. the cars are judged on a 100 point system, and i had a few friends with great cars enter who didnt win, and once we read over the sheet, saw the brake down of the judging there was no bitching about why another car won or lost.

I remember when if you won an award at a car show it was a great achievment and a reward for all the work you put into it.

The following is a link to the DOV where someone has started a thread on this subject, it would be great if we could somehow come together and select some volenteers to judge a class each or 2 people to judge a class like at WW.

http://www.thedov.com/forum/index.php?topic=103013.0


P.S. thanks goes out to those who put on the event and who have made it the well known massive weekend that it is.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2006, 04:47:30 PM by AirCooledRules »
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Offline AirCooledRules

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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2006, 04:54:10 PM »
Geoff posted while i was writing my thread. thanks alot for taking the time to post in the DOV thread. also, i would like to help with the H20 section of the show, ive given it alot of thought today and i think with a few changes the watercooled section can be amazing. PM me and let me know what i can do to help.

i think we can bring in alot of quality, even rare watercooled cars in from washington, and around here, if people would be motivated to bring their cars out.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2006, 04:55:43 PM by AirCooledRules »
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Offline Geoff

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« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2006, 05:15:44 PM »
Like I posted on the DOV this afternoon, We put the offer out last year when the h20 people complained but like always no one stepped up. We thought we did a better job of spacing out the H20 classes to give more room and added classes. It would be great to have a body of say 4-5 H20 diehards to take over that area and with our help run it the way you want it. The AC people dont seem to mind not winning a award, they are more in it for the fun of the day. If a judged class is in order then lets work on that.

Like I posted, we can work on making it bigger, better and more H20 friendly for next year but YOU the H20 people need to work with us to make it a event you want to be a part of.

Geoff.

Offline AirCooledRules

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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2006, 05:27:07 PM »
I dont want this thread to sound like im bitching and complaining. i fully appriciate and dont know the half of all the work that goes into putting this even on.

The thing is that with Watercooled cars, alot of the time you cant just call CIP and get everything you need, or go on thesamba.com.

with these cars, sourcing parts is very very very difficult, alot of people have to go into europe to find parts, spend lots of money, and restoration parts for rabbits, sciroccos and such is nothing, so interior kits, no rust repair panels for sciroccos, no windshields available even. so when someone in a shitbox beats you out, it kind of sucks. also if you are comming from manitoba, alberta, oregon, washington, and you see this, you may not bother making the trip again.

like i said, i would love to help.

P.S. some things of late that i like alot are, the peer judging, and watercooled entrants only judging watercooled cars and aircooled entrants judging only aircooled cars, that way, the aircooled guys arent just running down the watercooled rows and writing down the first number they see so they can turn in their sheets and vice versa.  
« Last Edit: August 21, 2006, 05:31:15 PM by AirCooledRules »
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Offline OUTKAST

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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2006, 05:57:47 PM »
NOW JUST MY 2CENTS  :huh: I would wait at least a week before making any suggestions on wasn't good and stick to what was good .I saw a lot more watercooled cars diplays and vendors this year . It is good granted you offered to help but as Geoff said maybe a core group should step up and run that area nothing is ever perfect and later down the road these things can and should be adressed, but for the emmediate time after the show the Organizers and everybody invovled need and truly deserve praise and good points highlighted as this is a huge undertaking wich is all volunteer . During the planning stages for next year be sure to be involved and make it better and get  your other watercooled friends on board . But as I said just my 2 cents This was by far hands down few glitches and all the best weekend to be had for aircooled and watercooled in B.C all Summer

And later on during planning made even better with your input and help

See you all next year Martin moore  

Offline AirCooledRules

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« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2006, 06:02:31 PM »
Fair enough. it was nice to meet you by the way.
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Offline Chris

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« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2006, 06:14:12 PM »
I noticed a few things myself yesterday, on several occasions we asked people to park in certain areas and they ignored that and parked where they wanted to, we asked them if they could stay with the class they were in and they said that they wanted to park with there buddies.

Pre-registration was available but maybe an online method would work well.  

Maybe you are right, judges are needed but if no one from the H2O community steps up then how can things change. But was it not Water guys voting for water guys and air voting for air? Its tough when car owners get to do the voting, especially when 20 of there buddies show up and they all vote for one guys car.

And I buy 90% of my Jetta and GTI parts at Airspeed.

Maybe this thread should be moved to the GCVWS Suggestion Forum?!

After all the hard work that went into this weekend from everyone it would be nice to hear some of the good things about the show. It is very disappointing to read the DOV thread and see everyone complain and then in the same breath say they dont have to time to get involved and others say why bother lets just go to some other show. Where is the love? You know owning a VW isnt just a choice, its a style, an attitude and way of life be it water or aircooled.

P.S. I love racing my VW!
 

Offline Chris

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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2006, 06:15:51 PM »
Quote
The thing is that with Watercooled cars, alot of the time you cant just call CIP and get everything you need, or go on thesamba.com.

with these cars, sourcing parts is very very very difficult, alot of people have to go into europe to find parts, spend lots of money, and restoration parts for rabbits, sciroccos and such is nothing, so interior kits, no rust repair panels for sciroccos, no windshields available even. so when someone in a shitbox beats you out, it kind of sucks. also if you are comming from manitoba, alberta, oregon, washington, and you see this, you may not bother making the trip again.

 
Im not quite sure what it is you were getting at with this? Im pretty sure that 99% of the people who drive aircooled VW's have experienced a problem with getting some part or another? But what does this have to do with the GCVWS?

Offline moodyman

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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2006, 06:19:09 PM »
This topic is the PERFECT example of the difference between air-coolers and water-pumpers.

People's choice is just that. A choice by your peers, and what they judge is a \"cool ride\"

In my opinion, my flat black crewcab should have taken it's class but it didn't. I thought it was the coolest one there. (hahaha)

My day was made by chatting with old buddies, who I haven't seen  in a while, meeting new people, and checking out the sweet Norco Trials Demo,
 NOT
about taking an award home.


excellent show, as always.
 :rockon:
« Last Edit: August 21, 2006, 06:21:35 PM by moodyman »
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Offline AirCooledRules

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« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2006, 06:30:07 PM »
Quote
This topic is the PERFECT example of the difference between air-coolers and water-pumpers.

People's choice is just that. A choice by your peers, and what they judge is a "cool ride"

In my opinion, my flat black crewcab should have taken it's class but it didn't. I thought it was the coolest one there. (hahaha)

My day was made by chatting with old buddies, who I haven't seen  in a while, meeting new people, and checking out the sweet Norco Trials Demo,
 NOT
about taking an award home.


excellent show, as always.
 :rockon:
moodyman, your right, though with an event like this there are politics involved and i think if we can round up some people who are willing to help, and i have already talked to some, \"Westcoastjay\" from the DOV would like to come onboard and help also if we can, then we can make this event even better.

I want GCVWS to be the  best show in the northwest.  
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Offline Lanny

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« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2006, 08:01:40 PM »
I don't usually get involved in this type of discussion, but this I must put in my 2cents.  In the DVKK (all 12 or so  of us..) only one person owns a watercooled VW. Most of us don't really follow the scene too closely. That said, we NEED some people from the H2O scene to help fill in the blanks. I thought about this yesterday at the show. Out of all of the DVKK people and the fantastic volunteers who plan and run this show, there isn't one H2O person involved. We could use some input and help next year, to smooth out the H2O classes. The aircooled crowd isn't used to new body styles being introduced as our cars stopped being built many years ago. :D As to the aircooled 'ease of finding parts' bit..that's pretty funny..Myself along with Gary E and Feegs built this years Best Of Show 60 Beetle convertible. Who wants to chat about hard to find parts..I dare you.. ;) Also, the GCVW's show HAD judging many , many years ago. I was one of the judges back in 91. What an absolute nightmare. I remember one guy going nuts because his velour 'Limo-Bug' interior lost to an interior that had thought /detail put into it..not just $$. The tempers were flaring pretty bad this year just counting the votes, let alone judging.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2006, 08:43:15 PM by Lanny »

Offline AlanU

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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2006, 08:38:37 PM »
I'm absolutely beat from the wonderful weekend we had. I'm exhausted just reading this thread  :o

I think this thread should be used as constructive criticism.  I can see issues arising from time to time regarding segregation of water and air but please bare in mind the GCVW is a VW show. I think its imperative that a core group of Water Vdubs participate in some of our meetings. If this doesn't occur this discussion is just a waste of time.

Input is critical for organization. Show go'ers just dont see the amount of hard work involved in orchestrate this show.

Lets see some more constructive input next year and we'll have the best ever GCVW show ever.

Alan Uyeno

 

Offline Bruce

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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2006, 09:08:57 PM »
Quote

For example, there was no mk5 class ? and the cars have been out for over a year, also mk3 cars were split up and all over the place, there were mk4-5s parked inbetween each other, there wasnt enough space for the watercooled cars.

I think some things need to be done, such as Pre-Registration....

I went to waterwagens ...... the cars are judged on a 100 point system, and i had a few friends with great cars enter who didnt win, and once we read over the sheet, saw the brake down of the judging there was no bitching about why another car won or lost.
 
There wasn't enough space for every class, not just the WC cars.  This is the price we pay for having such a great venue.   The water park is usually very busy with VW parents.  Most other potential sites don't have permanent washrooms, only the plastic phone booths.  It's nice to be able to wash you hands, don't ya think?  This site has grass areas to spread out on, it has trees that always have shade. It is also central in GVRD.  IMO one of the biggest reasons for the great success of the event is due to the location.  If we want to continue using this location, we have to deal with cozy parking.

As was stated, Pre-Registration has been done for the last 2 years (at least).  Someone suggested an online form of Pre-Registration.  Do I hear a 'puter savvy WC enthusiast volunteering to set-up something?

When the GCVW show first started in the early 90s, the classes were judged by knowledgeable people.  Geoff and I still remember that year we did the Beetle class.  It took us 4-5 hours without a break to cover all the cars.  To give each car a fair chance you have to give it more than a quick 2 min glance.  If you think applying the same standards to all the cars by the same judging team will stop all Bitching, you are wrong.  It doesn't matter how the cars are ranked (by judging, people choice, owner judged), there will ALWAYS be someone who's whole day revolves around getting a scrap of lumber.  We have found that with the current method of judging, there is less bitching than there was in the past when we had judges scoring the cars.  If you have a car you feel is worthy of winning but didn't, look to yourself.  Do you have a display sign listing your mods?  Is the car open so people can see what's been done?

If we were to have judged cars we would need at least 10-15 more volunteers that know about the cars they are judging.  Finding that many is a very tall order given the fact that the word was put out last year for volunteers from the WC camp and ZERO stepped forward.

Someone over in the DOV site complained that Golfs, Jettas, and GTIs were all lumped into one class for each of the 4 generations.   The same thing did happen on the AC side.  Did you go over and look at the Type 3 class?  The Squarebacks, Notchbacks, Fastbacks and T3 Karmann Ghias were all tossed into one class.  When you only get two Type 3 Karmann Ghias attending, it is kinda silly to have a separate class with a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place trophy, don't ya think?  Even though I did make a couple of passes through the WC section, I didn't do a car count for each class.  I can only recall seeing 2 Mk V cars, one Jetta, and the multi coloured Golf (or was it a GTI?).  IMO if you are going to have a separate class, you need at least 5-6 cars for the 1-2-3 trophy to mean something.  Over the 5 generations, do you think we got at least 50 Gs, Js, and GTIs?

Offline bufferman

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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2006, 09:35:35 PM »
i didn't get a chance to make it up for the weekend, but been to many many shows vw and other and none are perfect from what i have been told this show is one of the better ones and everyone should give the guys and don't know all there names that put this show on a big thanks its alot of work and commit to put a show of this size on there are more hours than people can even think that go into it so if you don't like step up and DONATE countless hours next year

just my 2 cents
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Offline slammedbus

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« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2006, 09:09:02 AM »
Ya, well try watching the show from 450kms away. If it was ANYTHING like last year, it was WELL done.
Can't wait to be around next year. Count me in for some volunteering too G. Maybe I could do some topless 50/50 sales or something  :blush:  
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Offline Geoff

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« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2006, 09:54:00 AM »
Like I posted on the DOV, I'm willing to have a judged section for all the people who want to win something as well as more H20's on the flyers /posters. The main thing we need is a body of H20 volenteers to step up and help organize and run the event.
I would like to see the event grow in both areas  even though I only see it as a VW show not a Air vrs Water event.  But if enough people want the changes I'm willing to work with them to make it what the people want.

Now's your chance to make this the largest VW event, step up and lets start making plans.

Offline steveo_32

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« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2006, 11:14:10 AM »
I agree!! If nobody steps up, I'll start to like the watercooled crap and I'll be the judge!! :P


 
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Offline Needles

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« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2006, 12:40:28 PM »
Quote
 
 
P.S. I love racing my VW!

Yeah, good job Chris!! All those practise days' racing' da bus, helped?
 
Hi-jacking the thread...maybe....
 
 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2006, 12:44:11 PM by Needles »

Offline nivag

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« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2006, 12:50:34 PM »
I really agree with Geoff - can't believe I just said that...

Someone HAS to step up and take control of the H2O section. And it really should be someone that they will trust and respect to do a good job.

Aircooledrules, since you seem so motivated, why don't you take up the chalenge of organizing that section? Or ask the crew on the DOV if someone wants to volunteer to organize?

If we can get the water guys to get more involved I think it could be an even better show. It would be great to see more of the newer cars out at the track as well as the show.

Maybe someone from Momentum wants to get more involved...

 



Offline flat4

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« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2006, 03:05:35 PM »
I want to thank the DVKK, DGLVK, and the affliliated volunteers for putting on a great show this year.  It was well orchestrated and seemed to go off without a hitch.  Congrats to you all.

I'm not part of either of the clubs running this great show, but from personal involvement with other car shows, if you have an issue with the way the show was run or how it was judged, don't just complain about it, but take it one step further, get involved,  and offer a solution to fix it for the next year.
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Offline AirCooledRules

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« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2006, 05:37:25 PM »
Someone PM me details on when you guys meet to start planning next years event and ill be there, also i know Westcoastjay would like to help out. i think with a couple more guys we can turn around the WC section.

I know i can help get alot more quality cars out, if that means personally Emailing friends with specific cars or contacting Corrado club of canada and letting them know that theres club spots available, leaving flyers and info at shops, to give out to their customers and to bring out cars. Theres lots of people from washington who have expressed interest in comming up, giving them some information, helping them set-up a cruise up here would be good. '

I dont think separating the golf/jetta makes sense at this point because theres not enough cars for each class. though having mk4/5 together makes no sense, you might aswell put the busses in with the beetles.

anyways, some classes need to change, like passat, and then another one for passat/audi ???, i do have some good classes in mind, though more research would have to be done to determine if they are practical or not.

Let me know when you have a meeting and ill be there.  
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Offline kafer_kid86

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« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2006, 06:52:45 PM »
the only reason why that flat back rabbit won was because he got all his friends to constantly vote for that car
some of those DOV guys are way too cool I would really like to see the DOV put on a show see what the turn out is like
so much time and effort goes into this show.......my 2 cents
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Offline AirCooledRules

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« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2006, 07:05:06 PM »
its pretty obvious why that rabbit won, and its not the end of the world but its really a shame when you have nice cars out there in the same class like these.

This rare as heck 1975 swallowtail, which used lots of Beetle part numbers when they were first in production, side markers with aluminum trim (super rare) this car is a deluxe





Archs car, a very nicely done 4-door, fresh 1 month old paint, all audi door handles welded in, mk3 interior, very cool





Jason's 75 Local swollowtail, this until last year was a 1 owner old lady owned, all original, even the tires island car. i believe it has 6xxxx miles





Fully redone resto mod from alberta. this thing was awesome, very understated and clean.



The interior was immaculate



Samirs GTi, i believe he bought this car from Barry Guscott years ago, it looks stock from the inside and out, but has a 2.0L 16v under the hood. another super clean car



Another smart looking car from the mk1 class, deans jetta coupe, looking good with plaid inserts on the racing seats.



thats just what i could find from some photos posted on DOV, but when you have quality cars like this, its a shame to see the outcome when the awards are announced.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2006, 07:27:07 PM by AirCooledRules »
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Offline slammedbus

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« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2006, 08:18:05 PM »
Those look sweet. I like the MK 1 all done up thing. Nice cars! Wish I had of seen them. I think with some of the WCoolers helping out, the two, lets call them disciplines, will compliment each other well.

Should think up some kind of \"all in fun\" grudge match. Air vs Water or something neat like that. Again, for fun,  some kind of booby prize or something that keeps coming back year after year.
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Offline silas

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« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2006, 08:41:04 PM »
Quote
There wasn't enough space for every class, not just the WC cars.  This is the price we pay for having such a great venue.   The water park is usually very busy with VW parents.  Most other potential sites don't have permanent washrooms, only the plastic phone booths.  It's nice to be able to wash you hands, don't ya think?  This site has grass areas to spread out on, it has trees that always have shade. It is also central in GVRD.  IMO one of the biggest reasons for the great success of the event is due to the location.  If we want to continue using this location, we have to deal with cozy parking.

well said and so true.

the park is the absolute perfect venue. my girlfriend couldnt stop raving about the fact that there was grass, sand, water, trees, washrooms, mountains and a ton of vws all in one place. she, aswell as alot of others i'm sure, would not come out if there were porta-poties and miles of asphalt.

as per all the other stuff said in this thread, i have to agree with what has already been said...someone that really knows the watercooled scene and is involved needs to step forward and work along with the organizers of the gcvws to make it even bigger and better.

Offline Tom H.

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« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2006, 09:19:44 PM »
some kool WCs!

 Having seen pretty much all the WCs come into the show for the last 4 years, I can say I've seen some very nice ones. I always seem to be short changed on time to talk to the many owners of cars I like, AC and WC alike. I am in no way any kind of expert on the \"other side\", but I do try to stay \"in family\" when I shop.  I am looking to replace my old '85 A2 GT, it sat on somebody's (Bilstein?) struts and springs. I really liked that car for a daily :) . I'm starting to lean towards a tdi wagon,  maybe.

 

But trust this, I hate judgeing cars!
     

Offline AirCooledRules

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Gcvws : Good But Not Good Enough.
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2006, 10:58:42 PM »
Yup, i love the venue.

Another thing is, we need to promote the show more in the states. The guys who came up here from the states have said that no one knows about the great canadian back home, i think we could do a couple things, for example set up a GCVWS booth at Water Wagens which is about a month before great canadian, and also at the Evolution Sports Leavenworth drive, at the drivers meeting where i believe something like 400 cars came this year (myself included) there we could have a few minutes to do a speach to promote the show aswell, like the waterwagens crue.

Anyways, ive got lots of ideas.
1960 Volkswagen Beetle

1975 Honda CB125S
1983 Audi UR-Quattro
1984 Volkswagen Rabbit GTI
1998 Audi A6

Offline Bruce

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Gcvws : Good But Not Good Enough.
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2006, 11:40:30 AM »
Quote
, for example set up a GCVWS booth at Water Wagens ................, and also at the Evolution Sports Leavenworth drive, .
Great idea.  This must be carried out by a WC enthusiast since AC guys usually don't go to such events.

Offline AirCooledRules

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Gcvws : Good But Not Good Enough.
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2006, 04:20:21 PM »
I dont think that would be a problem, as at the last leavenworth drive, the organizers were very friendly and mentioned that if anyone has any ideas to make their event better to email them, also they came up to our show. The owner of evolution sports came in his mk5 GTi with blue multi-piece wheels.

Im pretty sure they would not mind helping us promote our event.
1960 Volkswagen Beetle

1975 Honda CB125S
1983 Audi UR-Quattro
1984 Volkswagen Rabbit GTI
1998 Audi A6