Aircare Made Me Move Out Of Town!

[Splinter]

Aircare ]

I had to 'move' to Peachland to insure our '64 bus so that we could go on our first roadtrip (The bus ran great). Maybe someone can help me get this thing to pass so I can move back home?

I'm running a stock 1600 DP, not rebuilt or anything, that runs great and doesn't burn oil at all.
-]I replaced the original distributor with a 009 with Pertronix elctronic ignition.
-]The original 34PICT was toast so I'm running a brand new H30/31PICT with an adapter plate (I already had this carb).
-]The muffler is a beetle unit with 4 pipes.
I have failed aircare twice now for high CO in the driving test.

The first test results (using a #120 jet) were:
Driving
HC 118 (Pass)
CO 6.97 (Fail)
NOx 360 (Pass)
Idle
HC 332 (Pass)
CO 5.33 (Pass)

I looked on the aircare website which suggested a rich mixture caused the problem, so I threw in the #112.5 jet from the old carb and re-adjusted the mixture/volume screws. This produced:
Driving
HC 127 (Pass)
CO 7.12 (Fail)
NOx 401 (Pass)
Idle
HC 357 (Pass)
CO 2.94 (Pass)

The limit for CO in the driving test is 4.43
I'm wondering if anyone has a suggestion as to what I should try next.
I have a single vaccuum distributor laying around, do you think I should try that for more total advance?
Is my jetting reasonable?
Should I just shut up and clean that crazy air filter thing properly(I just sprayed Brakleen through it)?

More details: New cap, rotor, plugs, timed to 30 deg total using measuring tape/pulley method, the aircare guy ran in 2nd gear so it was revving pretty high for the driving test (reduction box transaxle).

Any help would be much apreciated!

[Custom76Bus]

Methel Hydrate. Put a bottle in your tank and voila... runs like shit but lets you pass. Aircare is such BS! Can't wait for them to scrap it

[Hansk]

It may be your idle jet. What size is it?  It seems carburetored cars never really get on to the main circuit during the test.  I've allways found main jets have little or no effect at air care but idle jets to have a huge effect.

[silas]

what's your limit for hc & nox?

when you threw in the 112.5 jet did you adjust the mixture rich or lean?

i'd start by properly cleaning/replacing your air filter.

hansk, if the aircare guy is running high rpm in 2nd, would that not bring the main jet into play? just curious.

[surgerypending]

I agree with Hanks...in my old car..2110 with 45 dells it failed first time through. I changed the idle jets..added some methalhydrate and 104 octain boost and the car flew thru. The current owner basically does nothing with it now (no fuel additives) and it passes. Keep your idle up to the maximum allowable..that should help.  

[BreakinSouls]

I just went through the same problem with my 68' bug, And it all came down to adjusting a few simple things.
Mine had the same problem CO was too high. Though trial and error (and alot of $24 runs through the sham we call aircare) I found the best way to setup for aircare is with a gas anlyzer, I know there are not easy to get access to, but with stock motor and that 30/31 pict which is the same one on my car, it was just a matter of adjusting the timing first, then with the gas anlyzer adjust the CO level with the volume screw which is the little one all the books says not to play with, then set your idle speed with bypass screw which is the big one. If you set it to about 1.5-2.0% CO you should be all right on the driving test.

Let me know if this makes sense to you and if not I will try and clarify. goodluck

Chris
 

[Hansk]

I don't know when the main jets come in but I'm guessing that even at the higher rpm's the throttle is still nowhere near full open and that the idle jet still will have the most effect.  Again , I'm kind of guessing and would just like to know what idle jet he has.

[Hillbilly]

Gee seems to me that 2nd gear would be to low, aren't the reduction box tranny's rated for 52 mph.I know that they put automatics in drive allowing high gear to kick in. If they run my buggy up to 60 mph (as they do) in 2nd gear I will be pulling that idiot out of it by thier ear. :lol: Hey...........Peachland is nice................ ^_^  

[Splinter]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I've used MH before, but I didn't even think of it for this bus. Can't hurt.

The idle jet looks like it's a 55, but it's pretty hard to make out the stamp. I'm new to these solexes and I didn't even realize there was another jet in there!!

The HC limit is 401, NOx is 3753. When I changed to the 112.5, I think I leaned it out a little more (I wasn't really keeping track, I was just setting it up again from scratch, but I seem to remember turning it in some more without affecting the idle speed first). You're totally right about the air cleaner, I'll clean that sucker in the parts cleaner at work before the next try.

Anyone have a suggestion for an idle jet size? It's a totally stock 1600DP except for the 009.

I'd kill to own a gas analyser without losing an arm and a leg. I do know of a VW guy close by who has one though, so if I don't make it through on the next pass, that's where I'll go.

Any thoughts on the vac/mech distributor thing for aircare?

The van was revving up pretty good for the test, much more that for the other cars I have taken through. The thing is geared like a stump puller! I drove it to Nelson and back last week and I was running some pretty high rpm on the highway. Peachland was sweet!

By the way, I'm off to Bamfield to slay some Salmon tomorrow, so I won't be able to reply until Sunday!
Thanks again guys, without this site our '64 wouldn't even be on the road yet! You Airspeed keeners first provided the parts, and now the advice. You rock!  

[jim martin]

there is no magic needed in passing aircare.in fact aircare can be a very good judge of your vehicles condition.here is the big secrect you need to know to pass.GOOD COMBUSTION.what that means is a motor that is mechanically sound with a set and operating  ignition system and fuel system operating normally you will pass.to many people with vehicles in poor condition that don't know what they are doing try all this crap to sneak it through instead of fixing it the right way the first time.and thats where all the problem start.
i can tell by your readings that overall your motor is in not bad shape as you hc is low both times ,that shows that at present you have no misfires and motor in good condition.the key is to look at both sets of readings they are almost the same except on the second you have set the mixture at idle leaner.changing your mainjet netted nothing because the car is not on that circuit yet.even thoe you adjusted you idle mixture it has only a small effect on the progression circuit which is what most of your driving is on.drop your idle jet down one size[meaning from a 60 to a 55] and reset your idle mixture and i think you will be way happier in the way the car drives/the fuel you are saving and will pass aircare.don't give up you are almost there.also change your plugs they are most likely blackand i'm assuming that your float level is set correctly and there is no fuel leaking down the carb from the accelerator pump jet or out the main jet at idle.use a mirror and look down it at idle

[Bruce]

CO was too high. Though trial and error (and alot of $24 runs through the sham we call aircare) I found the best way to setup for aircare is with a gas anlyzer,

Now that your engine is properly adjusted, you will more than make up the $24 you had to spend in increased mileage.

[Bruce]

Jim is right about the carb's operation.  While on the Aircare dyno your carb is delivering fuel through the idle cct.  The main cct is not even close to operating.  I've observed on my engine that it runs on the idle cct as high as 3700 rpm on the freeway.

Pull out the idle jet and reduce it by 5.  After re-setting the idle mixture according to the manual, you will pass.

Here's what the numbers mean:  

Idle CO is how you have adjusted your idle mixture.  Note in your second test that the idle mixture dropped from 6+% to less than 3%.  This is because it was waaaaaay too rich in the first test.

Driving CO is simply how big your idle jet is.  Change that jet you change the CO.

The HC is a measure of what your engine does with the mixture supplied to it.  Since your HC is nice and low, your engine is in excellent condition as far as rings, valves, etc.  Your ignition is also in good shape.

The best dist for your engine is the dual vacuum dist.  Is that what your original dist was?  The single vacuum dist will help compared to the 009 since it's mechanical advance curve is not as agressive as the 009.  In order for you to use the dual vacuum dist, you have to use the right 34PICT carb, or the replacement 30/31 Pict that you have.  You have to get the hoses plugged into the right ports.

Although your van may have seemed to be screaming itself to death, it is only going 25mph.  I think that if the rpms exceed 3000 during the driven test they are allowed to shift into 3rd.  But they'd need a tach to do this.  If you have concerns, ask to speak to the station manager.  They will pull out the tach and upshift if necessary.
 

[Splinter]

Thanks for the detailed descriptions, that is worth alot more than a few bottles of methyl hydrate. I will get a smaller idle jet, since mine looks like a 55 I'll buy a 50 and try again. Thanks again to everyone for the advice and I'll post the results of the next try.

As far as the distributor goes, it did have a single vac distributor before, but I heard that the 009 was the ticket and I got one with the engine so I used it. I've already bought a Pertronix for the 009 so now I'm going to have to live with it unless I buy another one for the single vac dist (I think they are different). Like most people nowadays, I'm not too fond of points. I read up on the different distributors after I had already set it all up and now believe I should probably look for a dual vac dist and Pertronix that. Maybe someone with a dual carb setup would like to trade a Pertronixed dual vac distributor for a Pertronixed 009?

[John W. Kelly]

I LOVE my vacuum distributor!  

[S Wyer]

this does seem to be a bit of a problem for me as well.  My experience when i bought the van was that I failed aircare twice before really changing my ignition set up.  In the end I am still not happy with the way it runs.

I was running dual dellortas with electronic ignition.  John at Van Wonder told me I wasn't getting enough advance from that type of dist.  He swapped it for a vacuum dist.  then he added a fuel filter inline on the vacuum hose to retard the timing at idle.  Anyway the whole thing is a bit of a mess but it passed with very low numbers.  The problem is that it is not runnning very well now, even though I have advanced the timing 3 deg.  There seems to be an acceleration hole when you first take off.  The carbs I am running should react quickly to the accelerator pedal.

So in the end,  my van runs but should be running better and I seem to be accepting it now because I know I am just going to have to cahnge things back to poor the next time I take it through aircare.

 

[S Wyer]

also, does anyone know if it is a characteristics of the dellortas to make your exhaust really loud with more popping than the single carb set up?

[jim martin]

also, does anyone know if it is a characteristics of the dellortas to make your exhaust really loud with more popping than the single carb set up?

i would say your car is running lean

[Splinter]

I'm still trying to get a #50 idle jet for the van, so if anyone has one and plans to go to the swap meet on the 16th, I'd be keen to meet up there. I'll also be looking for a dual-vac dist.

One guy I talked to told me I should just put another brass washer under the needle and seat to lean it out. Any thoughts?