Hello, for most who don't know me my name is Dave Anderson. I came upon this site when it began, as i used to do alot of business with Geoff back in the CIP days. I like to think that i will offer a more Eastern Canada approach to this topic as i am from Ontario, and due to the way we combat winter here (sand and salt will destroy a foot of snow) our vintage cars are almost non existant. I am currently finishing a 1967 type 1, and i am a perfectionist so i like to think my car is nice. My car is pretty much stock to original 1967 condition, lowered, rims, radio, some minor improvements but stock-including engine, no big carbs or ANYTHING.
This topic has been a hot issue with me over the past year or so, as i try to keep up with the prices of cars selling on the samba and such and i am amazed at how inexpensive things are. So i argue the point mentioned by Kirin (\"I've been monitoring the price of beetles and am shocked how much I would have to pay to effectively buy my bug\"). I have restored my car from the ground up, i have done everything almost myself except body work, paint, tranny rebuild and headliner. I know how much it has cost me to do this, and i admit that i have made some mistakes along the way (Paying a bodyman $4000 for paint and bodywork that turned out shit and had to be all re-done at my cost) and keep in mind that i worked at a VW parts supply store so i got alot of parts at dealer cost from CIP and had a mechanic on hand to help me out. So it amazes the hell out of me when i see a car that is \"freshly restored\" on the samba, running a dual carb big motor setup, freshly painted for $8000, at most. How the hell is the person justifying the sale of their car for $8000 dollars when if in fact they performed what they have said, the car must have cost them over 12000 or 15000 to complete. I feel that the price of good restored Volkswagen is currently selling for below it's value. When was the last time you saw a newly restored chevy, mopar etc for under 12000 dollars. Hell even a nicely restored Vespa these days goes for roughly 5000 Canadian. SO why are these cars so cheap. You guys out on the West coast may have a response to this question as you live a bit closer to california (where most are) and might have seen these cars and could clear things up by describing the actually condition of them. I encourage your response to this question.
Also, on the opposite end of this, after seeing what seem to be awesome cars for $8000, i look through Hemmings and on sites such as West Coast Classic Restoration, and oldbug and i see cars starting at 12k going up to 35k. And i know that these place usually deal with the rare 21 windows, splits etc but even if you take 10 to 15k off for the rarity from 30 or 35 K (which it often could cost to restore a car) you are still around the 20 k+ mark. So where is the value in our restored cars that are selling at $8000 or lower.
What people are not noticing is that these cars in are fact reducing the value of our own cars after we have put all the hard work and $$$$$ into them. I believe that a good to great stock restored VW should sell in the area of 15k to 20 K for a pre 67 vehicle, and 12-17k for a post 67 vehicle (usually non convertible). For a nicely customized vw (ie nicer interior, big radio, big motor, convertible, low milage vehicle add 2k to 5K.
Now that is for a restored vehicle, but what about the project vehicles. Well since i am starting to look for my next project i have looked around a bit. I can get a project early beetle for anywhere from 200 bucks to 3000 bucks depending on condition, year, how complete and rust free the car is etc. and add about 1000 bucks for transport because for me to get a good car i have to go south and or west. Once again, are the cars that i am seeing for 1000 bucks out west and southwest that seem to be a complete good deal really actually basket cases? or are the cars just generally cheap? The last time i looked for a project chevy or mopar etc project cars start around 3000 bucks. Now remove even a thousand bucks for the inflated costs of these due to their desire of all the rednecks out there, and they still start at 2000 bucks. Where's the comparison between them and a project VW? For those who are just starting, and otherwise those who have restored cars before will agree, to restore the car correctly its going to cost you roughly the same price. Good bodywork usually STARTS at 5000 cnd, no matter the car.
So i argue that we are allowing our own industry to slip beneath ourselves, we are not justifying the value of our cars to the effort and $$$ we have put into them and selling ourselves short. Yes it might cost us more at the begining to purchase the project, but it will also make the vehicle worth more in the end. Don't get me wrong, when i got to purchase my next project it will be nice to get a good start for 1500-2000 cnd, but what does that make the value of the my car when i finish it- I have still put the same amount of though, work and $$$ into it.
I just don't see how people can sell the cars they advertise for such a cheap price.
I ENCOURAGE and look forward to your discussion on this topic. Since i don't know the market on the West Coast that well i am interested in knowing your Western thoughts.
