Buildin' A Tranny

[josh]

soooo before I blow up the original 6 volt trans I wanna upgrade before the bug gets on the road. I want to find a good swing axle core to start with. What do you guys run for steetable ratios/ R&P's? Whats a good year/ code to look for? I've got a 2017cc behind it right now but might grow in the future. Should I consider a rhino case? For the gearing I want it a good low 1,2,3 but wouldn't mind somethin' a little easier on the ears sceamin down the hyway - with 195/60/15's the stock one runs about 4000 rpm @ 110km give or take, although it does get some good looks when I bolt on the un-baffled stinger and run it up and down the Island.  What size meats do everyone run on the back- 205/65's? soooo any suggestions or leads would be great , thanks

[josh]

Last year I was Bsn' with Wayne (Island bugs) at our half ass track - western not-so-speedway and he mentioned having a couple good swing axle's kickin' around but I seem to have lost his # anyone know how to get ahold of him?

[Russ]

i don't know how to get ahold of him,but i'm pretty sure he is on this board as island bug mabey check to see if you can send a mesage that way to him.
as far as buiding a trans i had terry hoogstein build mine i told him what i wanted to do and he gave me a list of parts i needed.
i know Bruce Tweddle can build a transmission as well (whether he wants to or not you would have to ask him)
Russ

[Bruce]

I recommend you start with a 71-72 IRS trans and convert it to swing axle.  Cores are cheap.  With the IRS trans, you get a bellhousing that's big enough for a 12V flywheel, the better guided TO bearing, a larger pinion bearing, and a 4.12 R&P.  IMO a 4.12 R&P is ideal for street cars.
I can't build any transmissions right now since I'm not in the country.

[josh]

right on, I try to do all my own building (well on my motor anyways) I had a GTI back in high school that had a inner CV come apart and smash a hole into the side of the case , so I have rebuilt a water cooled one in the past.  Will I need any special tools/ jigs, I seem to remember seeing some sort of gear carrier stand on the samba. I  know Peter at Island Bugs pretty good and he helps me out quite a bit when I get myself into a bind. what's involved in converting IRS to swing? Get a super diff, some axles, the tubes etc? Do 71, 72's have steel shift forks? What codes for what gears, or can you tell?

[Swartz]

whats a ball park price for something like this...assuming all new parts and getting it built?

[Stephan Schmidt]

I have a tranny that is from a 1971 IRS.  $50

Stephan

[josh]

stephan; what kinda shape? and do ya ever make it over to victoria?

[HeliMike]

what's involved in converting IRS to swing? Get a super diff, some axles, the tubes etc?

Convert IRS to swingaxle? Usually it's the other way around but since you asked:

I just did this conversion but in reverse. Correct me if I'm wrong here guys but IIRC this is what you'll need:

A swingaxle tranny (duh) complete drum to drum (tubes,axles etc)
Swingaxle spring plates,bushings and caps
Swingaxle torsion bars - can't remember the length though.

You're also going to need to buy new rear hard brake lines. Not sure about the rubbers though.
And since you're planning this swap try to find yourself a tranny (or axles/tubes and drums at least) from a type 3 so you can use the bigger drums.
If you do end up finding a type 3 swingaxle you'll have to swap the nosecone to make it work in a beetle. But that's the easy part.
Good luck.

[josh]

it's actually got a swing in it now but bruce suggested using a IRS tans and convert the trans itself? is that what you meant bruce? do the swing axle bolt right on, or is there more to it than that. but good thinkin on the T 3 brakes- anyone got any they're not using? oh ya what's the diff between single and double side covers?

[Stephan Schmidt]

hey josh, I never make it to the island .  I could meet you at the terminal though if you wanted it

great shape, fairly clean, 1971 code AH with the guide for the TO bearing.


Stephan

[silas]

here's a stupid question.

will converting a swing to irs widen the track at the rear by pushing the wheels farther outwards?

just curious.

[Bruce]

The IRS track is wider than swing axle.

Josh, you have it right, convert an IRS trans to swing axle with the sidecovers, bearings, axle tubes etc from your old trans.
Steel forks were used up to 66, then they went to brass on 1-2.  Then in 73 they realized the folly of their decision and went back to steel.  3-4 has always been steel.

[silas]

The IRS track is wider than swing axle.

thanks bruce.

thats what i thought, just needed to confirm.

so, do you know exactly by how much? it is still possible to fit something as wide as a 205 section width tire on a 6\" rim under a stock fender at stock height while running irs, correct? whats the largest you can go before it starts to \"stick out\"? 215?

[josh]

so i should find a 71/72 IRS and then when i have it apart swap out the 1&2 shift forks for steel ones? there is a berg 5 speed on e-bay - wish i had that kinda cake right now, think it's up to $1300US.  

[Bruce]

Silas, you should know it depends on the offset of the wheel.  I have some 49mm offset 7\" wide wheels that will fit perfectly with a 225 tire.  Fitting 6\" Fuchs is common on IRS Beetles.   Jag has 16x7s on the rear of his stock IRS car with, I believe, a 205/55 tire.

Here's that 5 speed on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...sspagename=WDVW

It always amazes me how some people can be so stupid as to build an IRS 5 speed using the weakest stock case out there when SSC cases are plentiful for next to no cost.

Josh, you only need to use a steel fork if you plan to slam gears hard with your right arm.  If you drive like your granmother is in the car, the brass fork will be fine.

[silas]

Silas, you should know it depends on the offset of the wheel.  I have some 49mm offset 7\" wide wheels that will fit perfectly with a 225 tire.  Fitting 6\" Fuchs is common on IRS Beetles.   Jag has 16x7s on the rear of his stock IRS car with, I believe, a 205/55 tire.

whoops, my bad.

i guess i was really wondering if the \"push out\" was really that signifigant or not.

thanks bruce.

[ryanmacneil8448]

I recommend you start with a 71-72 IRS trans and convert it to swing axle.  Cores are cheap.  With the IRS trans, you get a bellhousing that's big enough for a 12V flywheel, the better guided TO bearing, a larger pinion bearing, and a 4.12 R&P.  IMO a 4.12 R&P is ideal for street cars.
I can't build any transmissions right now since I'm not in the country.

how bout a 71 canadian swing axle 12 volt tranny wouldnt that save the hassle of swapping all that stuff over or are they totally different trannys?

[Bruce]

The main case and all the internals of a 71 swing should be the same as a 71 IRS.  Starting with a 71 swing doesn't get you anywhere since most guys throw away the late long axles and long tubes.  You still have to get an early trans for the axles.

[ryanmacneil8448]

oh i c