Author Topic: We Need Your Support! (Read 8484 times)

James Buchan · « **on:** July 22, 2004, 09:48:54 PM »

Hey everyone, as you all know I work at the Vancouver Shipyards. And you may have also heard in the news lately that the BC Ferries Corp. is in the process of tendering 3 \"C\" class ferries to overseas shipyards in places such as Germany/Norway etc...

A \"C\" class ferry would be one of the larger vessels that you would see in the fleet, I'm sure you have all been aboard the \"Spirit of Vancouver\" or the \"Spirit of Vancouver Island\" as they are the largest in the fleet and service the major routes. These are the size of the new ones to be built, and they measure roughly 550' long.

You can have a look at them here, http://www.bcferries.com/about/fleet/ also note that all the vessels in the fleet have been built here in BC.

So now you ask what the heck am I getting at? Well think about the amount of money one of those must be worth to build. That money spent out of country would be gone with no return other than a ferry in our waters.
But if that ferry was to be built here in BC that money would multiply into many positive things for our economy due to the amount of people it would employee to build. Those people having steady income for a number of years would contribute taxes. And those people would in turn spend that money in our economy helping other surrounding businesses. On top of this suppliers of all types would benefit as they would be the ones supplying the steel,wood,welding equipement etc... for these vessels.

So you can see that this is not a small thing for our economy to loose, it would benefit alot of British Columbians.

So what I ask you do is follow the link I have posted at the bottom of this thread, read the info there and then click on the \"How you can Help\" link on the left of the page and send your MLA an email requesting they look into this.
Here is the link: http://www.bcshipyardworkers.com/index.html

Sorry this is so long, I am just getting tired of things like this happening and our \"Government\" sitting back on their asses and not protecting us from it.

Thanks.

Chris · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2004, 10:24:05 PM »

Done!

Matt · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2004, 11:10:19 PM »

Do we still have the fast-ferries docked in Richmond?? or were they sold for pennies on the dollar?? granted the BC economy could use help, but I seem to remember the last ferry build we all payed dearly for. my $.02,

Matt

James Buchan · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2004, 12:05:50 AM »

The fast ferries were purchased by the builder - the company I work for. They are tied up in North Van.
Under the NDP there was a deal to sell them and lease them for a decent price, this deal was passed on to the liberals when they came in. And as like everything Gordo screwed that up.

These ferries are just regular type vessels. They will be replacing fleet that is in need of retirement.

The fast ferries didn't \"work\" because of sniveling residents along the shores of vancouver that complained about the wake they created.

silas · « **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2004, 12:28:46 AM »

good point matt.

i dont mean to rock the boat (no pun intended), but i believe that there was more than just the problem of the fast ferries creating a large wake.

didnt the projected cost to build them double or triple by the time they were finished? didnt the company that was paid to build them end up buying them for a 1/4 of the cost of their actual value? didnt they spend more time dry-docked, getting repaired, than actually running their routes? they werent really that \"fast\" were they? i seem to recall that they only cut 10-20 minutes (on a good day) off the normal crossing time. the comfort factor was quite poor as well. steep staircases and a very small outer deck. all in all, the whole \"fast ferry fiasco\" left a pretty sour taste in the mouths of local residents and taxpayers. and that rep will be hard to get rid of and it will be a hard sell to get the people of bc to believe that a ferry can be built here, properly and within budget.

i'm not pointing fingers or placing blame. i mean absolutely no disrespect to you james, or the company you work for. i'm just voicing my opinion.

Island bugs · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2004, 01:31:03 AM »

James In spite of your politics and mine being different there is \"NO WAY\" those jobs should leave this province. This is a mistake that need to be changed. My MLA has received my message. Thanks for making it so easy to do.Let's just hope they will listen.Wayne

Shane · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2004, 06:17:48 AM »

Yes we wastesd millions building the fast Ferries...Yes they were a joke... However the millions wasted were in our own province....Now had NDP paid for these ferries say from Norway then it would have been millions wasted out of our country. I think what James is saying is... If we are going to buy the new Ferries anyways ( Cuz we have no say) Why not have them made here. keeping the money in BC rather than over seas... The fast ferries were not a bust because of builder, they were a bust because of design flaws... and we took those designs from another country. Obviously if I built those fast ferries and I had the opprtunity to buy them back at 1/4 of the price I would also ,you would be dumb not to. It's not the builders fault that our government ( No matter who is in power) could not seem to handle this right. I will make no money's off this build, I even dont like to represent unions, However if we are going to spend this money lets keep it in BC. We are going to use the other countries Ferry designs anyways...
My 0.02 in Canadian

Russ · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2004, 06:58:40 AM »

Quote

I think what James is saying is... If we are going to buy the new Ferries anyways ( Cuz we have no say) Why not have them made here. keeping the money in BC rather than over seas...

Bingo
i hate the thought of more ferries being built but the bottom line is build them here and atleast we can have some people profit rather than none.
i'm sure after these are built they will decide to put up a toll bridge

russ

red snapper · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2004, 07:01:05 AM »

That really sucks!! Its called \"contracting out\" and it will probably bite us all in the asses. Sorta like privitization. They will hear from me to James. Keep jobs in B.C. not in some sweat shop somewhere out of the country like Sumas!!

Matt · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2004, 07:28:49 AM »

Quote

Keep jobs in B.C. not in some sweat shop somewhere out of the country like Sumas!!

Settle down Fester. I agree we shouldn't send jobs out of country, I just wanna know how much more taxes will the government take off my paycheck for this. If we employ highly skilled and extrememly highly payed wprkers for this, granted they will make money, but you know what, I'm not working on them there for it's gonna cost me money. It pisses me off to no end to just sit back with my thumb up my ass as the only way to try to protect the raping. I pay enough taxes, so does everyone else here. now before you all flame the shit out of me ,I'm going away now. I had an opinion and I voiced it. This is why politics and religion are not suppose to be talked about at the dinner table right?

Chris · « **Reply #10 on:** July 23, 2004, 07:43:51 AM »

This is pretty much a no brainer, keep bc money in bc, it does us absolutely no good in uganda or wherever. But what the hell are they gonna do with those fast ferries? We could fill them up with some of our favourite politicians be they liberal or ndp and sink it for a diving attraction! There has to be deep enough water somewhere in BC as they seem to have gotten us in enough of it! I sent the letter because we need to get our local economy going and spending the money out of bc will just drive us further into the ground. Maybe prices will drop at Airspeed if we build our economy and the value of our dollar rises and, and, ok I am dreaming but you know what I mean! Just my 0.013 cents US worth.

James Buchan · « **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2004, 07:55:06 AM »

I've heard of a few uses for the fast ferries but nothing concrete. One being floating casino, another being a passenger ferry from Victoria to Seattle - all rumors so far.

Yes the company I work for did buy them back at an auction, bidding against several other potential buyers. They basically got them for the price of the engines.

Mike Scott · « **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2004, 08:27:25 AM »

I watched the news last night, if you can call it that. I still don

66split · « **Reply #13 on:** July 23, 2004, 08:36:38 AM »

not tryin to be a jerk or anything as I agree with keeping as many jobs \"in country\" as possible. But isnt building a passenger ferry a \"special skill\" ? that maybe someone with experience should be doing? I mean you dont want the airline union guys building a 747 just to keep the job in country do you?

hellgti · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2004, 08:54:51 AM »

Quote

not tryin to be a jerk or anything as I agree with keeping as many jobs "in country" as possible. But isnt building a passenger ferry a "special skill" ? that maybe someone with experience should be doing? I mean you dont want the airline union guys building a 747 just to keep the job in country do you?

if your trying ot say BC doesn't have a skilled ship building industry, you are being a jerk. the reason the fast ferries only saved about 10 minutes on a trip was becuase they were regulated to only be able to run certain speeds because of the wakes they created. they were capable of faster trips.

red snapper · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2004, 09:10:10 AM »

I dont think 66 split was trying to be a jerk. But I think there is a lack of skilled tradesman in this province. People make basically the same in say Alberta plus the cost of living is cheaper by quite a margin. I work for CMBC and we are crying for qualified mechanics and bodyman. There is just not enough to go around. The government should be doing something to try and push the apprenticships a little more. Just my 69 cents worth.

Island bugs · « **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2004, 09:30:13 AM »

66split -As previously pointed out the ferries they are building HAVE been built here already so no-one anywhere in the world has more experience than the guys right here.

James Buchan · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2004, 09:35:47 AM »

66Split does have a point - We do have a vibrant shipbuilding industry but like every other blue collar trade we lack in enough skilled workers because they leave for a place that can gaurentee them steady work. Also the government is always jacking with our education system and making it harder to bring new talent into all of our industries.
When I worked on the last skytrain extension we had to bring in iron workers (specifically rod-busters) from everywhere, out of town,out of province etc even out of country.
We are more than able to build these vessels, as we have built EVERY other ferry currently running in BC. As well as many of the tugs, icebreakers up north, fuel barges etc.

66split · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2004, 09:36:41 AM »

here is what a guy posted on another BC vw forum that James posted in...makes a good point...

I'm sorry. You'll have to forgive my ignorance in supporting the local economy (that said tongue in cheek)

The BC Ship building industry can thank it's lucky stars for learning how to weld aluminum thanks to the NDP.

Now, a bit of history about the BC Ferry Systems for you.

The C class vessels already exist in BC waters. They are the main ships that run between Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay. Vancouver to Nanaimo for those of you not raised by Ferry parents

The S class vessels are the \"Spirit of\" ships.

Why should BC Ferry Systems be allowed to tender ship building offshore? Why shouldn't they be? They're NOT a provincial government arm.

quote:
You can have a look at them here, http://www.bcferries.com/about/fleet/ also note that all the vessels in the fleet have been built here in BC.

There are THREE vessels in the fleet that were NOT MFG'd in BC.
The TWO vessels in the fleet, that were built overseas are: The Queen of the North: Built: 1969, Germany , and the Queen of Chilliwack: Built: 1978, Norway . There's a THIRD vessel that was built in Quebec. Howe Sound Queen: Built: 1964, Quebec

Why should a FREE enterprise company be FORCED to build ships in a province where cost over runs reign supreme? Don't BLAME BC Ferry Systems for sending your money overseas.

If that's the case then the Cruise ship companies would never make any money because they'd be FORCED to build ships in whatever country the company is based out of. That, is a load of BS. Since BC workers HAD to be trained how to weld aluminum, would you really TRUST workers that had built 3 ships, versus the ones who have built a few hundred? I'd go with the ones with a better and a bit more well padded portfolio if I was to spend millions.

BHAHAHa, WHY SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT STOP a private enterprise from building a ship in another country that has more expertise and can do it for cheaper.

If that's the case, then you should sit there and say ALL German cars that are branded GERMAN, should be built by GERMAN workers, and in GERMAN factories. With ALL GERMAN parts and materials.

Would they be better? Who's to say, it all depends on the manufacturers. Would they be CHEAPER? Would they RUN any better? Can you see what I'm getting at?

If A VW was built in Germany with all German components, and NOT off loaded to another country, we'd be looking at 2-3x more cost.

That's what would happen with if BC Ferry Systems was railroaded into building their ships in BC. I'm sorry, but the unions in BC are so protectionist, that they don't want to see foreign competition in our waters. Since BC Ferry Systems is no longer a provincial government corporations, then they should be allowed to spend their dollars wherever it would get the best bang for buck. NOT where the BC Ship building Unions FEEL the best.

If the ships WERE to be built here, we'd see high cost over runs, inefficiency, and generally not as good quality as in Europe.

Take the Skeena Queen. Built in '96. She's ripped out more motors from their mounts due to BC Ship Building and design. Ask BCFC about her service record, and you'll find out that she's spent a LOT of time in drydock to attempt to fix these items. The Queen of Tswassessen had the incorrect motors installed at one point and w/o the right engine mounts, so, when she was turning a screw in reverse to back out of the berth, there was this awful cavitation that caused the severe vibrations.

GO BC SHIP BUILDING. We need that kind of work like Canadian built Yugos

__________________

James Buchan · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2004, 09:47:09 AM »

Shit I stir the pot no matter what I post! :lol:

hellgti · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2004, 10:05:52 AM »

in the past, BC's industries have been mainly centered around natural resources. thats not there anymore. would it not make sense to create skilled jobs for british columbians?

Mike Scott · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2004, 10:07:39 AM »

That post is wrong, wrong wrong,

The post makes no sense! Public money funds BC Ferries capital purchases, If it isn't public money, why did tax payers pay for the fast cats? Free enterprises fund there capital purchases, not the tax payers.

Cruise ship lines don't build their vessels with tax money!

What a load of crap

Mike

66split · « **Reply #22 on:** July 23, 2004, 10:11:52 AM »

i am not sure about bc/canadas government but if you have the voting power you should be able to keep it local...good luck!

James Buchan · « **Reply #23 on:** July 23, 2004, 10:25:07 AM »

voting power??? what's that?

Shane · « **Reply #24 on:** July 23, 2004, 10:39:19 AM »

Quote

I just wanna know how much more taxes will the government take off my paycheck for this. If we employ highly skilled and extrememly highly payed wprkers for this, granted they will make money, but you know what, I'm not working on them there for it's gonna cost me money. It pisses me off to no end to just sit back with my thumb up my ass as the only way to try to protect the raping. I pay enough taxes, so does everyone else here. now

before you all flame the shit out of me ,I'm going away now. Can I watch that???

If they send it over seas it will be your money's aswell fundung it to some Redheaded stepchild to build it...and your thumb would still be stuck up your ass

BC Ferries is Privatley owned now (Sort of) We still pay out taxes for the new ferries...as well as Trans Link owned by the Coast Mountian bus company...It's all Horse shit!!!

Imagine if this happened in the States... People would be dead!!! \"Ship Yard worker goes on shooting Rampage\"
[_[

Chris · « **Reply #25 on:** July 23, 2004, 11:31:14 AM »

Guess why there is a shortage of Skilled Labour in BC, liberal government \"revamped\" the apprenticeship process, so now if your employer doesnt want you to advance, maybe because it is cheaper for them, then you cant because they have to grant you the time off to go to school to complete your trade schooling. Funny little cycle we are stuck in, just wait for the big economic crash! We will all get layed off and then have to start at the bottom all over again, it happened to me already! We should try and do our best to support or neighbours and fellow tradesmen to keep working! BC can build a better ship even a mouse trap if given the opportunity! Just my other 0.013 cents US !

66split · « **Reply #26 on:** July 23, 2004, 11:53:16 AM »

Quote

Quote from: Matt,Jul 23 2004, 06:28 AM

Imagine if this happened in the States... People would be dead!!! "Ship Yard worker goes on shooting Rampage"
<_<
yeah but at least they'd be protected by the union !

Mike Scott · « **Reply #27 on:** July 23, 2004, 12:16:04 PM »

Quote

Why should a FREE enterprise company be FORCED to build ships in a province where cost over runs reign supreme? Don't BLAME BC Ferry Systems for sending your money overseas.

If that's the case then the Cruise ship companies would never make any money because they'd be FORCED to build ships in whatever country the company is based out of. That, is a load of BS. Since BC workers HAD to be trained how to weld aluminum, would you really TRUST workers that had built 3 ships, versus the ones who have built a few hundred? I'd go with the ones with a better and a bit more well padded portfolio if I was to spend millions.

That is the stupidist point I have ever heard!

Not one word of truth....

Cameron · « **Reply #28 on:** July 23, 2004, 12:22:55 PM »

Here is an editorial from Friday's Victoria Times Colonist. Arguing that BC Ferries should be able to buy ferries from the lowest bidder.
Read on....

B.C. Ferries is finally operating like a business

Sara MacIntyre
Special to Times Colonist

Friday, July 23, 2004

In an ironic twist worthy of a Shakespearean play, NDP Leader Carole James criticized B.C. Ferries this week for basing its bidding decisions on value for money rather then playing politics.

Lest we forget the fast ferries fiasco, which cost taxpayers a half a billion dollars, the decision by B.C. Ferries to go with the lowest bidders for its new vessels is a good sign the fledgling company is free from government meddling.

James also criticized the Liberal government for getting out of the ferry business and argued that \"B.C. Ferries spends taxpayer dollars and therefore should be subject to public oversight.\"

But the NDP leader has it wrong. B.C. Ferries is not a taxpayer-supported Crown corporation; it is not even a self-supported Crown corporation. In April 2003, B.C. Ferries became an independent regulated company and now operates as a private business, albeit one with a sizable contract with the provincial government.

Nonetheless, even as an independent company B.C. Ferries is subject to substantial regulation, provincial oversight and its fares, routes and services levels are set out in legislation and under the scrutiny of the B.C. Ferry Commission. New capital investments must also be approved by the B.C. Ferry Commissioner, including the controversial bid to acquire two super \"C\" class vessels with an optional third.

The bid for the new vessels went out internationally and -- contrary to the assertion made by James -- domestic shipbuilders were invited to compete as well. The local company, Washington Marine Group, made it to the second phase of the bidding process but was not invited to the third because of cost and capacity estimates.

Translation: the local bid was not competitive. As an independent business should, B.C. Ferries made its decision according to its bottom line and not from political pressuring.

Provincial governments have a long history of micromanaging in big transportation and infrastructure projects, especially in B.C., and it's always the taxpayer that ends up paying through the nose. This time the NDP would have all ferry passengers pay extra to satisfy the pressure to build at home.

If B.C. Ferries were to take the advice of James and George MacPherson, president of the Shipyard General Workers' Federation, ferry users would be paying a lot more and getting less.

B.C. Ferries has roughly $2 billion in new capital investments, a.k.a. new ferry purchases, planned over the next 15 years. If it started giving preferential treatment to local industry, despite project costs, then the cost per ferry would be a great deal higher -- and as a consequence fewer resources would be available for new ferries.

B.C. Ferries would then try to the recover the costs of awarding uncompetitive contracts by increasing fares to the maximum allowable under legislation. Parking rates and on-board retail prices would likely skyrocket. Why should passengers be forced to subsidize an industry that cannot compete internationally? Why should an independent company be forced to pay more because of industry and union lobbying?

Never mind that the ridiculous notion that business and governments should only buy from local industry is contrary to the driving force behind our province's economy -- trade, both inter-provincial and international.

And, if our ships are only to be built in B.C., than why not our cars, our computers, our MRIs? Because the cost to taxpayers and consumers would be enormous and our province would experience a mass exodus.

B.C. Ferries is on the right track. It is making decisions based on what makes business sense, not what is politically expedient. The last thing B.C. needs is more governmental meddling in transportation projects.

Sara MacIntyre is B.C. director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.

Geoff · « **Reply #29 on:** July 23, 2004, 12:37:25 PM »

I say sink all the ferrys and build a bridge on top of them and call it done.....Just make sure it's a 4 lane bridge each way not 2 like the trans Canada.

Author Topic: We Need Your Support! (Read 8484 times)

Matt

Russ

Matt