Author Topic: F&@#ing Aircare  (Read 7082 times)

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Offline moni

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F&@#ing Aircare
« on: October 26, 2003, 10:50:24 PM »
k, the blue angel has failed aircare twice now. first, after the rebuild -- but i wasn't too worried about that cos none of the tin was on, timing outta wack, valves all over the place, etc.... but everything's back into place now and running like a dream, clean oil, valves at .06... and i failed the idle again. the driving test is perfect, well within limits. idle is off by half a percent on CO2.

i'm thinking retard the timing, possibly hook up heat exchangers again (if it would make any difference)...

would rather not spend buckets at the shop to get 'er to pass... any suggestions on where to start?  
Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me, but deep down I know that's not true. Some smaller countries are neutral.


Matt

F&@#ing Aircare
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2003, 11:46:09 PM »
did you try the \"methyl hydrate in a tank of gas trick\"? it makes the engine run hotter and burn cleaner, I use it every time. also what kind of gas are you using? I found out a couple of years ago the higher the octane the higher the emmissions. if nothing else I've loosened the exhaust clamps a bit, the boobs at aircare dont look that hard at early vw's either...except when they ask you to open the hood and they stand at the front of the car!!  :huh:

Matt

Offline JSimmons

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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2003, 11:50:01 PM »
Aloha,

Is Aircare a Canadian smog test?  Just go find a stock 1600DP and throw it in.  Take the test.  Voila.  Go home, replace your tricked-out engine in the car.

~Joel



 
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.  ~Benjamin Franklin

Billyisgr8

F&@#ing Aircare
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2003, 07:18:11 AM »
put your rpm at 1500-2000 rpm for the idle, and very lean and retarded.  I had my idle bypass out 1/2 turn when my 1600 passed and the idle was set at 2000 rpm


Kevin
« Last Edit: October 27, 2003, 07:18:43 AM by Billyisgr8 »

Offline Geoff

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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2003, 08:57:35 AM »
Maximum allowed RPM at idle is 1100rpm, if they let you thru with a higher rpm they messed up. You can retard the timing and bump the idle up to the maximum allowable plus add some methel hydrate like Matt said. Hope that works.

Offline James Buchan

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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2003, 09:36:23 AM »
Are you running all stock equipement? What kinda dizzy? I've found that switching from an 009 to a vacuum advance type helps alot.

Offline AlanU

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F&@#ing Aircare
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2003, 10:07:39 AM »
Aircare changes their frikken minds all the time.  The last I've heard they're not checking idle speeds.  The cash grab is just getting riduculous.  C02 is an idication of engines efficiency.  On a stock engine the driving test is the least to worry about.  At idle was the C02 low???? on  a carbureted  motor  with NO Catalytic your looking at aprox 12%.  I dont know your engines specs but if you go too lean you'll have  a lean misfire and you'll have too much HC's.  CO is a byproduct of combustion and indicates if your too lean or rich. Whatcha at??? 2% CO at idle??? 1%?? if your at 5% or more your C02 can be low due to running too rich.  A stock engine with stock carbs should pass without any issue and should be  a snap.  

Since you failed on C02 I'm assuming your just simply a tad too rich. You can lean out the a/f mixture and back the timing aprox 5 degrees. Too retarded your engine will run hot and your oxides of nitrogen will go up.  Unlikely but sometimes if you freshened up your heads and got a valve job  the valves needs some mileage for better sealing. Theoretically not so true but I've seen it before. Also the new rings will have blowby too which may effect emissions.
 
I've heard people using higher octane assuming it helps but I honestly haven't seen much different results in all my year of doing aircare.

If your c02 is too high thats a simple problem to fix. If you had high HC thats a little more complicated.

You wanna know the truth about  Aircare repair shops.  They look at old beetles as a waste of time.  Aircare looks at AirCare repair shops with a points system. If a licensed aircare mechanic has alot of failures (high percentage failing when they're suppose to pass) Aircare mandates that the techincian that supposedly \"passes\" the car (which fails) takes another \"written examination\". Of coarse an aricare tech doesn't want an old car potentially flakey car.  Old cars like ours have a tendancy to be intermintent or \"flakey\" so if the car looks like it'll pass on the 4 or 5 gas analyser  but fails alot of aircare technicians are reluctant to take on jobs like that. Also theres a $$$ limit that Aircare give a  car owner depending on year of vehicle.  Alot of mechanics dont want to learn or familiarize themselves with old beetle technology.  Shops looks at the flat 4 as an ODD engine.  Many are not familiar with the solex carb.  Duals scares the crap out of them 'cause alot of them WONT have jets to play with and also they're probably not familiar.  I've fiddle on alot of ACVW's and I absolutely hated working on alot of them because of the unmaintained disrepair stuff out there. I\"m being honest and if your at a shop bottom line is completing jobs successfully without comebacks.  I am no  longer working in that field even though I'm a licensed mechanic I can see how alot of aircare shops out there are scared to touch our cars. Almost 99.9% of the aircare repair shops DO NOT have dynos. Engines react completely different with or without loads. Idle is the only real thing a mechanic can test on the gas analyser.  Since our engines expands the idle may effectively go up typically.  that will also effect the emission output.

I'm not disrespecting anyone here.  I'm merely stating things that many people are not aware of. I've had cars failing and the owners expect miracles with cars that have had no tuneups in 3+ years or worn out carbs, distributors etc etc.  

Your heat exchangers will not effect anything as long as they're going on a stock motor or slightly larger.

If your idle was low just by bumping up the idle will increase the C02 readings.  spec sheet would help greatly. minimal info doesn't show the big picture.

I know alot of mechanics that know squat about carburetors. Yes in apprenticeship at BCIT I learned basic function of a carb but I've learned alot on my own through the years.  Majority of new licensed mechanics are more in tune with electronics not carbs.  Even many late 30yrs old - 40 mechanics do not know the clockworks of carburetors.  
« Last Edit: October 27, 2003, 10:13:59 AM by AlanU »

Offline kirin

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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2003, 12:38:47 PM »
Okay heres the story...
My bug was a out of province car so the first time I got it insured it was fine.. no aircare cause it was under my dads name. When I got the plates switched around and ownership to me..(To make it cheaper strangely enough). I had to go through aircare.. The bug(1200cc 40hp.. stocker)... with unknown mileage.. ran alright.. failed first time on the idle with Hydrocarbons.. So I were you.. I would take the blue Angely to Duanes automotive with a 6 pack of whatever his favourite beverage.. and get it put on the sniffer just before you take it to aircare. I had to do this with mine.. And the second time(Literally failed a half hour earlier) It passed with flying colours after it was tweaked on the sniffer. I think that would be the easiest way on you and the car.. saves you some time... I look forword to seeing what I have to do when i get new plates for my bug in the spring... Of course Aircare is going to be gone within the next 4 years right?
-Kirin
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Why do it once when you can do it thrice?

Offline James Buchan

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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2003, 01:03:29 PM »
Duane drinks Canadian.

Offline AlanU

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F&@#ing Aircare
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2003, 02:09:22 PM »
If you had a free meal ticket would you say NO??? Aircare will be around for a long time.  I think they were considering extending the intervals on new cars. So basically currently they take 2 years worth of fees so you can bypass going to the aircare station the next year. I think I heard they're wanting to extend that so they save $$$$ are reduce the cost of testing cars BUT TAKING MORE MONEY NOW. This is supposedly trying to make thing more convenient for us.....whatever.

Thats great for newer cars since you can put in higher volume fuel systems, bigger cams, race motors and be safe to get insurance trouble free  without aircare for 2 years (currently) but i've heard them wanting to extend it to 3 or 4. This is hearsay but the story goes is that  aircare is proposing to do this. Its all about saving money on testing cars but grabbing the cash now. Isn't Aircare owned by Translink.

As far as the ACVW we have to get tested every year.  

You've probably observed that many Aircare Repair centers are pulling down the signs in the last few years. The prerequisite of being a \"Repair Center\" is extremely costly to the operators with minimal benefits to do such services. If you want a \"conditional pass\" you must go to an authorized repair center.  life is grand!!!

Offline moni

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F&@#ing Aircare
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2003, 02:12:02 PM »
:wub: thanx for all the suggestions boys.

i'm running single port, 28carb, vacuum advance dizzy, and i only put 93 in for gas. methyl hydrate's a good idea for next time, thx matt.

Quote
At idle was the C02 low???? on a carbureted motor with NO Catalytic your looking at aprox 12%

no, i failed cos it was too high. i checked in at 6.2%, when the limit's something like 5.8% (don't have the spec sheet with me, sorry). HC's were *well* within limits.

jsimmons; yer post made me chuckle... what if it is a stock 1600? lol... damn stinky stockers.  :P
« Last Edit: October 27, 2003, 02:13:37 PM by moni »
Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me, but deep down I know that's not true. Some smaller countries are neutral.


Offline AlanU

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F&@#ing Aircare
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2003, 02:21:23 PM »
Moni,

Dont get C02 mixed up with CO. Carbon dioxide should be somwhere around 10-12% Carbon Monoxide (CO) should be realistically around 1-2% BUT thats not written in stone. 5.8% is god aweful rich. But I wouldn't play around to much with the a/f mixture screw if your HC are within limits. I'd almost assure 90+% of ACVW locally are running way too rich in there daily drivers. Please note though that aircare specs are suppose to be for emissions testing NOT ALWAYS real life best driveability a/f mixtures. Rich always makes the engine happy. good luck

Offline Aircooled Angel

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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2003, 02:35:59 PM »
Whatever you do Moni don't take it to Trip Motors again ;p

hehe.
 
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Offline JSimmons

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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2003, 10:49:58 PM »
Aloha,

So what's up with Aircare?  They make you guys up in the Great White North test your antique cars every year?   :blink:   Thank God that down here in the middle of the ocean they don't care how stinky your car is.  They just charge you a \"reconstruction\" fee if you decide to modify your car...pure BS.

Moni - sorry I made the assumption that the engine in question was a little hotter than stock.  I figured engines that people try to assemble themselves are bound to have more problems passing than just an old stocker.  Who knew?   :P

aloha,
Joel

 
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.  ~Benjamin Franklin

Offline moni

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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2003, 09:38:31 AM »
joel, no worries mate! just made me laugh a bit: lots of folks here follow your method, esp if they're running higher cc's and dual ports. some shops even have a loaner on hand for such occasions. but i'm pretty much stuck having to clean up my 1600, even if just temporarily.

yeah, aircare licks bag. we gotta do this every year, or we're not allowed to insure the cars. there's ways of getting out of it, but it's almost a bigger hassle than working on the car. you're lucky! yet another reason why i should just pack up and move to hawaii...  B)  
Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me, but deep down I know that's not true. Some smaller countries are neutral.


Offline Shane

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F&@#ing Aircare
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2003, 04:30:41 PM »
Moni when my car failed for the same reason I approached a Guru and my reading were the exact same as your ...
he told me to just turn the air feul screw back a full turn so that it barely idles I took a screw driver with me and every time it stalled at a light I turned it up just a bit so that it barley idled and it past 1/2 within each test
 
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Offline captCRUNCH

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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2003, 01:45:48 AM »
hey guys, i used to work at the richmond air care station and have seen some stinkers get a pass, and how it is drivin during the test DOES effect the test results. if i saw a nice looking old car come in my lane i would try my hardest to get a pass for it...i would get 'er into 2nd and go above the test speed and bring the speed down slowly till it was in the upper part of the allowable speed range then hold the speed steady...or try to anyways. also there is a bit of a trick with air care...don't tell me that it doesn't work cause i've done it myself, however you still need your motor to pass. ok here's my story...my insurance is up in dec. and i am running a basically stock 1641 with a 009 and a 34pict3. it has passed before and it did pass again so i go re-new my insurance...ok so now i'm sitting with a pass and i know that if i took my car threw again it would most likely pass again. so fast forward to about april i am about to throw some kads on and to save the hassle of trying to get the car to pass again in dec. i take it threw with the same stock setup before the kads go on and got a pass. so now i'm good for another renewal (an air care PASS...not conditional pass...is good for 362 days or something like that). so i put the carbs on and when december rolls around i get that letter saying its almost time to renew my insurance and it said air care not required :D yay for me. so its been about 1 3/4 years since i've taking my car to air care.

so in short...get your car to pass then renew your insurance...keep everything the same...go back 5 days later and get another pass (you will probably be told that you don't need another test yaddy yaddy yaddy)...insist that you want the test...collect your pass hopefully *knock on wood* and your good for the next renewal. just make sure that you renew your insurance with the first pass. and there ya have it...your 2 year pass for old vehicles.

sound confusing?? i'm sure...i'm not good at explaining this stuff...but SHhhhhhhhh...you didn't hear it from me  :ph34r:  

Russ

F&@#ing Aircare
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2003, 06:53:04 AM »
it's kinda of funny that you posted that capt. i privite messaged moni earlier about something similar.
that is almost exactly what i do,i insure for 9 months then reinsure for a year(but it has to pass the first time)
let us know if it finally goes through moni
Russ

Billyisgr8

F&@#ing Aircare
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2003, 08:06:55 AM »
And for all of us who know our cars would not pass,  If your aircare is still good but you have changed to a fire breathing monster motor, go cancel your insurance pay the $50.00( I can't remember exact $$)  and get new insurance for another year.  This only works of course if you air care is still valid.

I did this when my aircare was to expire within 2 days, canceled and took out new insurance, and now I don't have to worry about it until next year.  

Kevin

Offline moni

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« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2003, 09:25:54 AM »
i wish i could pull the sneaky tricks like these again. but unfortunately, i'm already on my conditional pass with two weeks left on the permit, and i pulled the insurance renewal with a week left on aircare last year. guess i'm paying for it now...:rolleyes:

i'm going to give 'er another go on saturday, keep yer fingers crossed for me
Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me, but deep down I know that's not true. Some smaller countries are neutral.


Offline Bruce

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« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2003, 01:01:28 AM »
Quote
Moni when my car failed for the same reason I approached a Guru and my reading were the exact same as your ...
he told me to just turn the air feul screw back a full turn so that it barely idles I took a screw driver with me and every time it stalled at a light I turned it up just a bit so that it barley idled and it past 1/2 within each test
I wouldn't call him a guru, I'd call him an anti-guru.  He's one of those ignorant mechanics that believe in the has-to-run-like-crap to pass aircare.

  I've seen many completely stock engines that have come from professional repair shops that barely run and fail aircare.  All I do is get the orange Bentley book, turn it to page 10 of \"Fuel System\" and follow the directions.  They pass every time.  Its that simple.  I can't understand why these mechanics can't figure this out.  They must be illiterate

Offline moni

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« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2003, 12:16:04 PM »
gdmfbs! failed again, dammit.   ]:(
 
Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me, but deep down I know that's not true. Some smaller countries are neutral.


Offline Bruce

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« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2003, 07:57:18 PM »
Post all the numbers.  From before and after.  And describe exactly what you did.

Offline jason_hamilton

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F&@#ing Aircare
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2003, 08:08:04 AM »
Or just post your VIN. Aircare has complete emissions history available to the public searchable by VIN or registration number.
http://208.181.195.106/vehiclelogin_public.cfm
If your results are anything like mine, it clearly shows how often you put the effort into doing a proper tune up.
I usually try and fluke my way through by cleaning the spark plugs and playing with the advance (by ear). Of course I'd fail, bitch about it for a day, then take the time to buy all the parts and do it right, including valves. Always passes.
Jason Hamilton

Offline Pipes

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« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2003, 11:57:37 AM »
I feal your Pain Moni! Very much so, I am going thru the same problems!  I have a ways to go to get thru Aircare yet.  I gotta learn how to do a proper tune and get it thru!
Trying for low, show & go

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Offline Bruce

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« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2003, 01:44:24 PM »
Jason, that link didn't work for me.  Could you check it out?

Offline jason_hamilton

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« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2003, 07:18:26 PM »
Hmm.
Seems to be offline. Home page is http://www.aircare.ca
 
Jason Hamilton