to cut or not to cut

[52 split]

hello all , newbie here on site, would like some thoughts on cutting in a three fold top into an early 52 crouch cooler,this car is # matching,the car is ready for paint, the thing is , metal has been replaced in the usual places, front fire wall, heater channels, rear &front  aprons with german metal as much as possible. :-\would this ruin or help a future sale, does any one know a good installer and where i could get a correct three fold top? . thanx

[owdlvr]

You've got a numbers matching vehicle, and you want to cut in a top?

From my perspective, that is a definite turn off towards the value of a future sale. For what it's worth, I say don't do it....

-Dave

[James Buchan]

I agree dont cut it!

[Lanny]

From personal experience, the sunroof will add value to the car. I have yet to see a genuine -55 sunroof car(of the many I've worked on), 90% are spliced anyhow.

[slammedbus]

good call Lanny. I will smite the others for you

[dods1600]

How can you tell if the car has been spliced with a rag top?

[notchback]

Go ahead and cut away I agree with Lanny

[G-dog]

Just do it well-don't hack it and make it hard for the upholstery guy to finish!

[nivag]

Before you worry about lowering the value(which I dont think it would if done right), you might want to price out finding a roof section and the mechanical parts. The cost of the parts alone if you dont have them might help you to decide...

[owdlvr]

good call Lanny. I will smite the others for you

I smite thee for ruining my neutral score!

-----------------
Back on topic...

From what I saw this past year while shopping for a bug, most of the grafted in roof's were either a) noticeable in some way, or b) being passed off as factory folding roof cars. Usually it was "found out" and exposed by someone who knew a previous owner. If the market is valuing cut-in's higher then fully matching cars, then I guess I'm wrong.

But it just seems to be a shame on a numbers-matching car. For what-ever reason, it seems "okay" to me if it wasn't numbers matching.

-Dave

[VW 144th]

Don't do it ! The car has survived this long with out becomming a baja or "The pink lady" If it were mine # matching , Noooo Way!

Sorry Lanny.

J

[Trevor P]

I wouldn't do it.
If it was a shell and missing most everything when you got it I would say go for it, but it sounds like you have some what of a survivor. Besides sunroofs are nosiy and they leak.
In the end it's your car and only you can make that final decision.

[Krautbucket]

Personally I would leave it alone , it might be worth more with a sunroof in it but it shouldn't always be about monitery value , original cars are not falling out of trees and they don't make them anymore so nothing wrong with preserving another one . Having said that there are some very nice modded vintage vws around too . If you really want a sunroof , its your car and I won't hold it against you .

[Randy]

It's only original once!

[buggy1]

I'm not one to talk as both of my cars are modified, but I'd leave it as is and then go find a rag for the next project.

[72vwtype2]

Relax Guys/Gals!!! It's only a matching number 52. I see them scooting around town all the time.

I say one piece window kit, louvres the running boards & deck lid, shaved handles & moulding, suicide doors and then paint it "peachy pink".

[red snapper]

I think if you plan on keeping it for a long time and are not considering selling, then go for the sunroof. Just make sure its done right and no one will ever know but you. If you do decide, I suggest you talk to Lanny or Stefan Feeg, and Im sure you'll be glad you did. Beetles are dime a dozen anyways.

[meciscokid]

Hey!, I'll send you a dollar, (or a dollar twenty-five U.S.A.) , send me 10 Bugs if they are so plentiful up there. Hell I'll even come up and get them.  Seriously tho,  It's the owners choice, but it has been my past experience that  a numbers matching collectable vehicle, ( 32 Ford, 55-57 Chev, 65-66 Mustang  etc.), that has been correctly restored or original, will have a wider resale interest, than a modified one. Notice I did not say worth more. Its just that when you start modifying a vehicle, you have to realize that not everyone may think it is for the better.  Myself, I really enjoy viewing a correct vintage automobile,  But Big Daddy Ed Roth will always be my hero. ( I might be bi-polar).  REMEMBER its YOURS!  Whatever you decide, ENJOY IT!, 

[Bruce]

I say put it in.  
A true 11G split is definitely worth the most, however, a properly welded in correct 3 fold will still make the car worth more than if you leave it the way it is.  Just like a semaphore'd oval is worth more than a later oval.

[billybob57]

I think you should leave it alone it a 52 for gods sake dont see them every where. Plus down the road you might regret putting it in and then there is no turning back and making it original again. Do it or Dont still your decision. Would be nice to see some pictures thou...

[70's Looker]

i will vote put it in, no question really if your going to sell it, a well done one will bring the bucks up, if your going to keep it why not have a big ass sunroof in it, i see no down side and if the "original" folks dont like it well they can find out what was original to that car and put a solid roof, im sure 50's cars have the same kinda shape if its easy to put a sunroof in than its easier to put a roof back on. the custom guys can work welders just as good as the stock guys think about it!

[steveo_32]

If you do it right it can always be corrected, Look at the amount of work that goes into some of the split restorations in the U.K.
Have fun, most likely you will not find a original one anyhow.
The money is there anyhow, I think its worth more if you do it,

[silas]

first of all...welcome to the asf!!!!

secondly...

...52 crouch cooler...

a crouch cooler!!! sweet.

finally...

i'm with the "dont cut" party. i'm definately no purist (i love 'em all), but imho, splits are way too rare to be cutting roofs in. especially a #'s matching split. even if it's had heater channels & aprons fixed/replaced...it's still not worth it...for the sake of originality and resale value (see below).

now...alot of people here (yourself included) have mentioned the resale value of the split should you decide to sell it. the argument seems to be that a split rag (even if it's unoriginal) would gather more cash than a hardtop. i dont necessarily believe that to be true.

case in point (and someone correct me if i'm wrong here)...the randy gates "gates of heaven" split window hardtop and the rich riviera "brown gfk ragtop split" (which i'm fairly certain was an original rag) were two cars that had different looks (cal-look vs resto-custom) but were also two cars that were top shelf restos with all the bells & whistles and all the coolest one-offs and were built by the same guy (buddy hale).

both cars sold for roughly the same price...$65-70k (give or take a few bucks...but if i recall the end prices were not that far off from each other...and again, someone correct me if i'm wrong).

and this was a real rag vs a real hardtop.

my point is...that if a split is built right in the first place...it should gather top dollar regardless of if it's a hardtop or ragtop. but it also seems that split folks (stock or custom) seem pretty picky about the fact that the more original a split is...the more it's worth.

so if you're looking solely at the higher resale value...dont cut.

and if you're looking solely at originality and authenticity...then dont cut.

but in the end...it's your ride to do with as you please...so whatever you end up doing...make sure you drive it and enjoy it!!!

[52 split]

thanks for all your input on cut or not, i did not want to put in a sunroof to increase a future sale, i wanted to hear thoughts on if doing so would lower the value of the car. i do like the looks of a sunroof and i plan on keeping and yes driving the car. i would like to show the car in aug at the show if completed on time, hey the classic would be great to go to as well, i will be doing a resto\custom theme.brms or porsche alloys?. lowered a tad in the front narrowed somewhat. nothing to far from stock. keeping all the stock parts in storage. of course i hope to do a proper job on the car. i could use the number of gary economy to install the interoir,or some one exprencied on the island to do the job?. i have a complete ingrid opermier interior, the engine was done by okrasa joe by the p o for this car.maybe i should find an okrasa kit for this engine. i do have photos not sure how to post.there were no computers when i went to school.would some one with vintage know how volleenteer there # to consult with, i have only worked on 1965+ cars.  thanks again all

[Lanny]

Good points Silas, although Richs' 50 was a basket and I'm 90% sure it was spliced. The Gates Split has $25K more in the running gear(EFI 2332/Berg5) while the 50 has a 25 HP. I feel the the splice won't hurt the resale value, that's the question first asked.

[beetleboy]

CUT!!!!!

[josh]

thanks for all your input on cut or not, i did not want to put in a sunroof to increase a future sale, i wanted to hear thoughts on if doing so would lower the value of the car. i do like the looks of a sunroof and i plan on keeping and yes driving the car. i would like to show the car in aug at the show if completed on time, hey the classic would be great to go to as well, i will be doing a resto\custom theme.brms or porsche alloys?. lowered a tad in the front narrowed somewhat. nothing to far from stock. keeping all the stock parts in storage. of course i hope to do a proper job on the car. i could use the number of gary economy to install the interoir,or some one exprencied on the island to do the job?. i have a complete ingrid opermier interior, the engine was done by okrasa joe by the p o for this car.maybe i should find an okrasa kit for this engine. i do have photos not sure how to post.there were no computers when i went to school.would some one with vintage know how volleenteer there # to consult with, i have only worked on 1965+ cars.  thanks again all

welcome mr 52

my 2 bitz..... if you want a sunroof car and you are gonna keep it then go for it! (as long as it's a 3 not a 2 fold!!) That said if it were for resale, then unless you already had the clip it wouldn' be worth it...... $3+ for a complete clip, then if you had to pay someone to graft it in proper $$$$$ would at least equal if not exceed the increase in value.

You mentioned the island.... where are you located? I'm in Victoria building a 55 rag and could give you a hand if needed.

Josh

[Jeremy]

Here you go. Don't know if it's a two fold or three. In Tacoma.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=665813

[piercedvw]

NO Don't!! 

[buggybilly]

na dont do, I am on that side of the fence, ya got a crotch cooler that cool enough
if you really want to buy a clip ship it to the island spend the 3-4 gs. then sit on it for a while


be happy with what ever you do, and drive it. okrasa soods cool is there anybody running one on the island
cheaper than rag top preaty fun too,a little vintage preformance