Engine Or Tranny Issue

[flat4]

After boiling the hides yesterday evening at Race City, I approached the pre-tage point, clutched in, ensured it was in first, let the clutch out, and stalled the car.  Embarrasing, yes, I know.  Then the car wouldn't start.  Actually, the car wouldn't turn over.  It could be pushed in neutral, but trying once to push start it, nada.  The engine won't even turn over by hand.  There was no clunk, no grinding, nothing.  The engine is a 2332, with a Rancho Pro Street tranny.  In the pits, I used the shifter to go through the gears, and first feels kinda \"soft\" compared to 2-4.  2-4 all make a real definitive \"clunk\" when I shift into them, but first feels light.  Is it possible something happened inside the tranny that is preventing the engine from turning, or did I seize the engine?  It's still in the car.  What impact would a broken main shaft have on the rotation of the engine?

[Chris]

how is your clutch?

[egspot]

how is your clutch?

flywheel, or clutch. Either  way may not allow you to  turn the engine depending on what got broken with all that power.

Does you starter turns or tries to? can you wiggle the car back & forward on gear?

[BUSDADDY]

Shure sounds like clutch issues but how fresh are your nosecone bushings? almost sounds like it's going into two gears at once, although when that happens there is usually no neutral. Look at the clutch first, maybe try wigglin the motor back and forth with the pulley nut and then take the two plugs out of the left side of the tranny near the front and see if the shift shafts are both moving.

[Chris]

shifter linkage bushings?  

[BUSDADDY]

No, the ones the hockey stick slides in.

[flat4]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll let you know what I find when I pull the engine.  Wish me luck.

[Hansk]

After boiling the hides yesterday evening at Race City, I approached the pre-tage point, clutched in, ensured it was in first, let the clutch out, and stalled the car.  Embarrasing, yes, I know.  Then the car wouldn't start.  Actually, the car wouldn't turn over.  It could be pushed in neutral, but trying once to push start it, nada.  The engine won't even turn over by hand.  There was no clunk, no grinding, nothing.  The engine is a 2332, with a Rancho Pro Street tranny.

Long high RPM burn out?  Deep sump?    

[flat4]

not so long of a burnout, as there is no line loc in the car, and yes I have a deep sump, 3.5 qt. Why?  I'm totally curious to know how/what this may have done.

[BUSDADDY]

Oil starvation. Prolonged high revs and the oil can't get back to the bottom of the sump fast enough, pump cavitates and pumps air and we all know about the lubricating qualities of air.

[Hansk]

Yes , just as BD said but now I'm thinking this is not really your case.

I've heard of guys claiming to have done a huge long 8000ish rpm burn out only to have the engine seize at the end. The theory being(and I believe it) that they actually sucked the deep sump dry.

I have personally seen a non deep sump motor rod bearings destroyed after about 10 seconds at about 6500 rpm. Sure proved to me why we need deep sumps.

Either way , if your motor is actually seized it must be an oiling problem of some kind. I hope it's not to bad and you can get it sorted out and back up and running again soon.

[flat4]

I would have been lucky to have done more than a 2 second burn out.

[flat4]

So the engine is out.  Not easily either.  For some reason, I had issues getting the engine to disengage from the transaxle.  It just wouldn't come all the way out.  I had to get under it with a pry bar to pry the flywheel away from the transaxle.

It is seized, I think.  Piston skirts all came off ok, however I can't get 2-4 pistons off, as they are both far enough in the case that wrist pins won't come off.  Suggestions for this?

I've never seized an engine before, but there is VERY minor play in the flywheel when I try to rotate it.  Is this normal?  It won't spin, but it does move back and forth very slightly.  Would this be the seized bearing possibly moving on it's dowel pin?  Is it possible the oil pump crapped out and this is stopping the engine from rotating (wishful thinking)?

[Bruce]

If the cylinders for 2&4 are off, you can split the case with the pistons still on the rods.  

Your guess about the bearing moving a little bit against the pin sounds about right.

[flat4]

So I finished splitting the case tonight, and had a good surprise...not a good one.  I took my sump plate off only to find what appears to be clumps of sand (or something similar) stuck to the sump plate.  Not just a bit of sand either.  There's a few clumps larger than sugar cubes.  I had some earth magnets stuck to the sump cover, and that seemed to hold whatever this stuff is to the sump.  Metal filings maybe from the machining?  Its very granular whatever it is, and breaks apart like hard sugar.

Now that the crank is out, I can see some damage to the dowel pin hole on the main bearing saddle.  It's been stretched.  Can this be repaired or is it time for a new case?  I can't say if it's a little warped or a lot warped, as I've never seen this before.

Ideas?  Thoughts?
 

[Chris]

take a snap of the damage and the crap in your motor and post it may help with getting you answers

[silas]

hey fred, alan u ran into the same problem not too long ago. he found clumps of sand in his 3.5 quart empi sump.

for some reason i cant post a link to his thread on cal-look.com, but if you go to the cal-look forum, type \"sand in sump\" into the search engine, press enter, scroll down the page to alan u's thread and click on it, you'll see a detailed pic and description of what he found.

good luck bro.

[flat4]

Silas...

thanks for that.  That is exactly what I found in my sump, except in WAY larger doses.  I wasted a whole bottle of brake cleaner on the sump, and nothing like that came out.