AirSpeed VW Community Forums
Technical => Restoration, Preservation & Body work Forum => Topic started by: bwaz on August 30, 2005, 09:02:58 PM
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Hey all,
I'm trying to find a place to better my extremely weak welding skills. I saw something at BCIT, but was a full year course. I just want to find somewhere to give me some basics so I don't hurt someone! It may sound dumb, but what kind of welding is mostly done for bodywork repair. I know buddy at one time brazed everything he did, but is MIG or something the most common these days? Not trying to put the real guys out of business!
thanks
brian
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langley schools has a night school course on restoring your car, check out there continuing ed programs.
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KMS tools also has a course on welding.
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Generally most body repair work will be done by spot weld with a gas sheilded MIG welder. Check kwantlen college they have handy resto course like body, mechanical and upolstery that are in the evenings and only a couple of weeks long specifically for the do-it-yourself types.
good luck
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thanks for the info, although nothing concrete yet as the school semester is still not really running. I couldn't find anything current at KMS, and kwantlen has nothing evenings I could see either. Langley schools didn't really show anything on the web site, anyone know or enrolled in something I could chase down?
thanks again for all the help
Brian
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Kms website looks as though they are a couple months behind. You may wanna call the store.
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The Langley one - if it's the same one I'm thinking of - starts in Oct. Thursday nites at LSS. Its been going on for years. Guy who runs it is an absolute genius with metal but when I took it I didn't find he would spend much tme teaching welding techniques. The equipment was there, and he would give a hand, but he didn't really \"teach\" welding. Lots of neat information though - like how to repair the bakelite of old steering wheels etc. I only took one series ( Oct through March or something ) although some guys have come back for years apparently. The guy runs Rumble seat restorations in Abby.
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I took the welding course through continuing education. The teachers name was Mr. Eddie. He spent more time talking to another student about his motorcycle than he did teaching the class. I got the basics and they taught every welding technique there is. It was every Wed night at Clayton Heights high school. Good luck.
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Gas acytlylene welding is more satisfying for body work , and your welds don't look like chicken poop. It is easier to learn with gas than mig on thin metal. Mig is good for thicker metal 1/8\" + I prefer gas on really thin stuff like body panels. I just welded my 1/16\" header and went from mig with gas, to flux core mig, to acytlyne gas welding and the gas welding by far did a way better job, and filled any pin holes I had the first time when pressure testing, the mig I was chasing pin holes all over. I will save my mig for big stuff from now on.
I must say though mig welding with flux core leaves a better looking bead than mig with gas. Fluxcore has a slow wire feed speed which equals a fine bead. Mig with gas has the wire feed flying and you will have huge beads fast which is good for filling, or if you are not that good yet, big gobs of beads. I made my carb adapter using mig with flux core and 4 people thought I tig welded it, the bead was small and perfect.
Kevin
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Gas acytlylene welding is more satisfying for body work , and your welds don't look like chicken poop. It is easier to learn with gas than mig on thin metal. Mig is good for thicker metal 1/8\" + I prefer gas on really thin stuff like body panels. I just welded my 1/16\" header and went from mig with gas, to flux core mig, to acytlyne gas welding and the gas welding by far did a way better job, and filled any pin holes I had the first time when pressure testing, the mig I was chasing pin holes all over. I will save my mig for big stuff from now on.
I must say though mig welding with flux core leaves a better looking bead than mig with gas. Fluxcore has a slow wire feed speed which equals a fine bead. Mig with gas has the wire feed flying and you will have huge beads fast which is good for filling, or if you are not that good yet, big gobs of beads. I made my carb adapter using mig with flux core and 4 people thought I tig welded it, the bead was small and perfect.
Kevin
hey kevin, i'm glad you found something that works for you, but i find your post somewhat confusing.
there is no flux core mig welding. it's mig welding or flux core welding. one of the differences is that mig uses a mixture of co2 and argon in a bottle to shield the weld and flux core uses a flux core wire that creates a shield as it meets the heat from the welder.
also, typically, mig is better for thin stuff. it does depend on the size of wire you use, tho. thinner metal=smaller wire. also the cfm that the gauge on your bottle is set to. and all mig welders should have adjustable wire feed and voltage settings so you can fine tune it to your needs.
allthough i have never used flux core welding, i hear it spatters quite a bit.
one problem i've found with oxy-acetylene welding is the amount of relatively uncontrollable heat that is created. bad for thin vw metal.
also, the metal on our acvw's is so thin that it is tough to lay down a continuous bead, no matter what type of welding you are using. usually a tack here and then another 6\"s away and then one in the middle and then one in the middle of each of those spots and then in the middle of those...until they meet. i know one guy that can lay down a pretty fine bead on vw metal...and he's been doing it for years and is in the field.
imho, it all comes down to the users technique and the settings on the machine that they use. when i bought my mig welder, i went to main street sheet metal and bought a 5'x8\" piece of thin 24 gauge metal, and cut a 2\" strip off of it and then welded it back together. after doing that over and over and dialing in the settings on the machine and bottle, i was comfortable enough to use it on the car.
welding is not brain surgery, but it is an art. it just takes time and practice and the proper use of the machine. in the end you'll probably spend 10% of the time on the machine welding and 90% of the time prepping and dressing your work. B)
but it sure is fun.
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Yea your right,.. mig is with gas, flux core is without. I have allways call it mig with flux core wire....
Yes there is a larger HAZ zone with oxy welding but I prefer it now.
Gas oxy welding with the proper tip is vital, I bought a meco midget torch last year and it is awsome for thin stuff. I can lay quite a long bead with a small tip. I can hold the torch in a spot for 1 second once the puddle is formed before it blows through using the second smallest tip on sheetmetal. Control at it's finest with the small tips....it rocks. .... Flux core does spatter, the beads are nice though. Flux core IS NOT FOR THIN STUFF it is too hot and will blow through fast. It is ok only for tacking in my opinion.
I have a Lincoln 175 MIG and love it, variable voltage from 25 amp to 175 and variable wire feed.
OH and 1 more thing. DO NOT BUY A SIZE 16 BOTTLE OF ARGON/Co2 from Air Liquide if you plan to move away from the lower mainland. They will not exchange this size bottle it is a lower mainland size only , and you will be out $228.00 and have to buy a new size 9 bottle for $240+tax.
This past year using the meco torch has really opened my eyes to gas oxy welding. It is abit too small for 1/8\" or bigger though, but it can work.
Kevin
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Maybe I'm just old but I really like my oxy acyt. for body welding. Many years ago I bought my self a Dillon torch set. This really helped me back then and even now 20 + years later I'm still learning(don't do it enough)
Short quick weld ....hammer & dolly ......short quick weld .....hammer & dolly .... in the end you should have a panel that needs little or no filler. I think thats the way it should go. I'm not there yet but it's fun trying and learning.
Hey , I once saw an old 40's truck with a little tag that said \" the torchmen\" anyone know anything about this?
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the \"torchmen\" are a car club.
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Ah Ha , I had visions of a bunch of old farts and thier welding gear :wacko: