AirSpeed VW Community Forums
General Forums => Air Speed Lounge => Topic started by: Shane on July 10, 2004, 09:43:44 PM
-
Well, James and Shane came over to help remove the engine,
As we got closer you could see more and more carnage. I have not split the case , However there is not much to salvage, I am thinking new engine and I am also thinking 2332/Ida's turbo is out... :(
I am done for the year, But I must say that it has been a very nice ride.....
(https://airspeedparts.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dune-buggy.com%2Fgallery%2Fimages%2Fbbs212%2F212894.JPG&hash=e610c762e0d8264431ec226956aff888ff810c81)
That is what was in the intakes
(https://airspeedparts.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dune-buggy.com%2Fgallery%2Fimages%2Fbbs212%2F212895.JPG&hash=d53eedf5b8ef6886452876e5472dfe799abce4ef)
That is the only piece of piston we found.
(https://airspeedparts.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dune-buggy.com%2Fgallery%2Fimages%2Fbbs212%2F212896.JPG&hash=39c605cd3af51e011900229f24966e2ec21a3135)
Bent Valve
(https://airspeedparts.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dune-buggy.com%2Fgallery%2Fimages%2Fbbs212%2F212893.JPG&hash=befff6fe386841d903ee7043b21467c4f43c98db)
The other head and damage on it
(https://airspeedparts.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dune-buggy.com%2Fgallery%2Fimages%2Fbbs212%2F212892.JPG&hash=4cbc776ec653401da95ac69b120cc06e014400d9)
How the Cylinder was on the car
(https://airspeedparts.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dune-buggy.com%2Fgallery%2Fimages%2Fbbs212%2F212891.JPG&hash=18b3eded98a5f7cd6b88f211e3da6ccc63c236b9)
No piston on the rod
(https://airspeedparts.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dune-buggy.com%2Fgallery%2Fimages%2Fbbs212%2F212890.JPG&hash=daad5bfff0d4197c42c030ed1182031c4977390e)
Finally the 2 hole in the top of the case....
and that is it!!! :( :( :( :( :(
-
Shane,
i feel for you this really sucks,mabey we could find you a nice 1600 to play around with ;)
i can't tear a motor apart and repair but if you ever need any help with the install or anything else give me a shout
take it easy
russ
-
Ouch!!!!!!!!!!
How much boost were you running? Are those the mahle/cima piston & cylinders?
Kevin
-
so does this mean that no more turbo hulk for just this season,
sad day but there is always bigger and better
matt street
-
Ouch!!!!!!!!!!
How much boost were you running? Are those the mahle/cima piston & cylinders?
Kevin
Running 15 pounds boost, Cima's
-
does this mean your turbo cam and lifters are for sale if they are still ok?
Kevin
-
Sorry to hear it, It was sure fun watching you burn up that track!! :( :wub:
-
Man thats brutal! i was told that you blew out a cylinder...but i never expected to see carnage like that!
At least that motor went out with a good bang!
But really, thats shitty man. if i can help ya at all let me know!
Cale
-
Yeah that looks bad BUT your not out yet, I'm sure we can get ya back on the road with a smaller motor for the end of the season. You gotta drive it to the GCVWS!
Call my cell Shane.
-
Shane,
Maybe you should get one of these to replace the Hulk instead:
(https://airspeedparts.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tgfab.com%2Fstool1.jpg&hash=a40b4879442501263c931f6e5767a8f6f248db15)
http://www.tgfab.com/Funny.htm (http://www.tgfab.com/Funny.htm)
It would be cheaper to fix when it blows up :blink:
Seriously though, as you already know, speed costs $$$ but speed + reliablility = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Looks like you needed an inter-cooler and 114 Octane with water injection. That detonation is deadly.
I'm sure we'll CYA back out there again in one form or another, even if's on a bar stool :D
-
:( :( :( :( :( Bad news guy ! sorry to hear that the cars down sounds like a great group of guys down there ready to help though .Keep us informed :mellow:
Later OUTKAST
-
DUDE!!! Sorry to see the hulk down! I really like coming to school on Monday's to show other staff what a VW can really do. Hopefull it'll be on the track again soon.
:(
-
OUCH!!!! :( :( :( :( :( Just got the news . This is a shocker for sure!
Any ideas why ? 15 psi on race fuel would not be the cause. You sure it was only 15 psi. ? You sure it was race fuel ?
Back in the day we ran 20-25 psi. to run 10's @ 125mph
If this was my motor I would just have to know why. Not good enough to just say \" it's just racing\" Something happened to cause this and it is avoidable if you can find out what it was.
btw , how do you make a small fortune in racing?
START WITH A BIG ONE!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
THat is my only question.. is what would cause this.... There is no blame to place anywhere!! I want to stress that . However I would also like to know why and if so what can be done to prevent this again...
There are no parts for sale... I am going to hang onto everything because I may want to Turbo again!!
BTW you guys/Gals are the best. Truly is a great community and I am very honored to be part of it! :wub:
A hug for everyone
-
My guess is it was running lean.
The exhaust was very grey/white as were the heads. Running race fuel sometimes means bigger main jets but that is only a guess at this point.
-
LEAN........... look at the valve color....If by any chance it is the same carb set up when Jim had it and nothing changed, it was lean then too, I remember telling him a few times to richen it up, but he seemed to think it was running rich allready. Your tailpipe will tell the tale. Any shade of grey soot is to lean you want a more charcoal black color. Turbo's like it very rich.
Don't give up, this is a learning experiance. I wasted a $6000.00 custom turbo motor when I was 17 in a bout 2 hours of run time from being too lean. Been there done that, and I know next time, I would rather have it rich and foul spark plugs a couple of times till I got it right.
Of course who is to say your piston didn't fail at the wrist pin boss either. My bet is it was lean though.
Kevin
-
I also don't place any blame. Hope I didn't come across like that . Something unforeseeable has happened.
-
I also don't place any blame. Hope I didn't come across like that . Something unforeseeable has happened.
No NO hans I know you did not... I just want everyone to know that I am not pointing fingers as I was the guy running it down the Track @ 126MPH!!!! Just dont want anyone taking it the wrong way... ;)
-
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=...4150&highlight= (http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=74150&highlight=)
-
hey shane, sorry to hear about the motor.
good for you for taking it so well. you and that car were kicking some serious ass out there, and i imagine your 10.83 will be tough to beat so you dont have to worry about the bumpage on the top 10 list. (allthough darren k. and jim m. are gonna pull some killer times this year, i just know it).
i'm sure we'll see you back in the saddle in no time. speed is like crack. it's addictive.
good job and good luck with the new motor.
-
Sorry to hear the bad news Shane. It appears you were running lean with that white exhaust valve. The evil detonation could have compromised the strength of the stroker pin boss of the cima piston at some point in the lifetime of that piston. Regardless the fact is the piston did fail and the pin boss did let go. Maybe next time richen her up and use a colder spark plug.
As per converstation at A&W I think a piece of mind nextime would be to use weisco's or J&E. True forged pistons that have been proven over the years to take brutal abuse. Even with high quality products like that are still not immune to 2 flame fronts aka detonation. Stronger piston boss areas that'll give you a good piece of mind.
killer times with that engine. I foresee you shi!! kicking everyone in the Sport compact class at mission soon.
Sorry to hear it man!!! Just get back on your feet again. I know your addicted to adranaline after that ride.
-
Like I said above looks lean, There is no reason to run Weisco pistons as Cimas will take easy 25-30lbs of boost like hans said. For peace of mind maybe but.......
If it was a little richer this may not have happened, But if it went lean a weisco would let go as well. Fix the problem not bandaid it with another type of piston.
15lbs of boost is not much at all and most of the cars running down south use Cima's and 20+ lbs of boost.
-
Why would it run lean though? Curious as last time it was due to 94 octane - I'd hate to run mine lean!
-
Looks like it was a bad weekend for turbo motors - SHane wasn't the only one to blow
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=...4115&highlight= (http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=74115&highlight=)
-
here is a couple of things ,
first in order to help aid a turbo car ,or any forced induction vehicle . TIMING AND TEMPATURE need control !!!with nitrous use there is a natural cooling effect !!!! but with a turbo or a kompressor as the air is compressed it also gets very hot,DETENATION! . next time around.i would use a -- j and s safeguard knock control with boost input to control timing and back it off when needed as well as either mix my fuel with 10-15 % alcohol or use a alcohol injection set -up to aid in cooling !!
as far as a lean out ,unless there was a new fuel problem due too lack of fuel or level or angle in the bowl i don't think it was the problem,that leads too detenation caused by heat ,the colouring on the exhaust valves in my opinion are ok for the heat that was generated inside the combustion area.
also don't know if you still had the LM1 in the car as the data would tell the story.
sorry shane too hear the hulk has ground too a stop ,but the most important thing is that you are here too tell about it !!!!
-
I am sooo totally amazed that car ran that hard with only 15lbs boost :blink:
-
Shane
Just got home. Great to meet you. What a bummer. I truly feel for you and I sure do know how it feels. Let me know if there's anything I can do.
Wayne
-
NIce to meet you aswell Wayne, Sorry i did not come out .. Little bummed...
Side Note, I watched the Video where I shot sparks.....paused it and Framed it on my Big screen, It was the sump touching the ground on the second hop.. So that is good news... :blink:
-
As for the cause, both passes I saw (heard), there was a very loud bang/pop at about 2/3rds - 3/4 track
coming from the exhaust (more like a gunshot). Under full load, this would indicate either detonation or
a lean out condition. Did you have an O2 sensor and gauge to verify the A/F setting under full load?
-
wow, this is a bummer. I have a high idle in my bus right now, which means more air, which means lean...i think I'll fix it before going out for drive. rick
-
Shane I'm really sorry to hear about your engine, I just heard this morning from Cameron, (I figured Friday had been rained out) With my broken arm I have been laying low.
It's funny to read everyones speculation on what happened, what part failed, and why... Unfortunatly we probably will never know exactly what failed first,
It could have just simply been just a part failure, It happens. Something we unfortunately have to live with in this game....
Was It leaning out? By the color of the valves I would say no, When Turbo motors lean out they melt Aluminum, Very fast, the Hottest area is the deck around the exh. valve and that would go first I see no signs of that, or a hole melts in the top of the Piston the motor looses power and has Shit loads of Blow by, but usually not a catastophic failure like this.
Also note than a rich running motor can still detonate if the Octane of the fuel can not handle the Cylinder pressure.
As Jim Martin recommends an LM1 withdatalogging would tell us alot.
I know that was used during it's original tuning.
My guess is another Piston faiure, But not bacause of using Cima Pistons at 15 Lbs boost but perhaps some undetactble detonation was happening
that finally took it's toll on the P/C,
I know that detonation is very hard to detect sometimes especially in a car going 120 + and soo many things happening soo fast.
I ran well over 100 passes at 22-25 lbs boost on the old Turbo car and never changed the Cimas, I Tried 30 lbs once leaned it out and melted a ditch in one head. (I consider myself lucky on that one) But the Cima's lived on.
I never asked you what grade of race gas you use and that could also play a roll, It may be best to go to higher octane fuel regardless of what boost you run. the Slowest burning fuel available is made by Trick Racing, it is called Trick Turbo and it's motor octane is 119, That is what I reccomend that you run in the future.
Always remember that the combustion temps on an aircooled engine especially turbo are higher than a water cooled engine and what works for them may not work for us.
We can also put a tell tale on the rising rate fuel pressure regulator to track what your peak fuel pressure is under max boost.
The heads look saveable, and hopefully the crank is too.
Anything ya need don't hesitate to ask.
I hope to get out to Airspeed tomorrow and if it's all right with you I will take a look at it.
Darren
-
Just thought of one more thing, I'm thinking perhaps a rod let go first.
Thoughts?
-
Shane runs C16 fuel.
-
Hmmm C 16 is good shit................
-
THanks for your opinion Darren.... Glad to shed some light from a builder... You are going to rebuild my next machine anyways. so you can take the block and the heads., I have ordered a new High rise 10 ml stud case. And so there you go.. I am in no rush . However I would like to buy parts as needed, once you figure out what is needed. I hope the head is salvaged..
Cheers
Shane
PS it's all good!!! ;) Just bad timing,
-
Wonder if this is still availible....
http://forums.airspeedparts.com/index.php?...=ST&f=24&t=1837 (http://forums.airspeedparts.com/index.php?act=ST&f=24&t=1837)
-
ouch!
I'll toss my 2 cents (usd) in. Darren brought up a good point, he used Cimas for a long time, wonder if Darren's were the old ones with waaaaaaayyyyyy more pin boss than whats been available for the last several years? I think a piston failed around the wrist pin.
-
we will find out :D
-
Its not that bad!! I'll grab some jb weld and we can snab some file rings and get her running by tommorow!!!!!!
If not you and me will throw my special 1200 in!!
Its all about the love dude!! Im here for ya!
(At least you went out with one hell of a BANG)
-
Its not that bad!! I'll grab some jb weld and we can snab some file rings and get her running by tommorow!!!!!!
If not you and me will throw my special 1200 in!!
Its all about the love dude!! Im here for ya!
(At least you went out with one hell of a BANG)
1200 eh what is that a 21 sec 1/4? Man I would feel like Chris!!! :P :P :P
Steve thanks for helping push that wreck into the trailer...
Now comes the debate....
Turbo? or N/A??
Cant make up my mind!!!
-
All i can say is F#ck that sucks a fat one, but i'm sure i'll see ya driving the hulk again soon, :(:(:( even if its a 1600cc, that car is still the sh#t :rockon: :rockon:
-
go big shoot for mid to low 10's high 9's :rockon: i don't know if that can be done but that would be sweet
matt street
-
Sorry to hear dude. I do feel your pain though. :( Keep both of your chins up!
-
On the lighter side (AND IT WILL BE LIGHTER,NEXT TIME):
126MPH you say Shano, damn thats double (60.62MPH) my 1/4 mile top speed!!!! I can't imagine it :wacko: :wub: :wub: :wub:
-
Shane! Its a enough to make a man cry! :(
I say stay Turbo :) Otherwise it'll just sit there hanging off the garage wall, taunting you... :rockon:
-
well My wife said last night that without the Turbo the car is no longer the \"super Hero \" and more like Brian ghia :blink: Just a nice slow car!!!
or was it like Chris' Van Big tub oh Sh@t ????? oh well what ever you know what I mean...
So decisions are yet to be made...
-
Thats not what your wife said the other night.........
.......I have always been waiting for a good time to use that line :P
-
Thats not what your wife said the other night.........
.......I have always been waiting for a good time to use that line :P
THat is cool... Cuz Courtenay and I have been writing her book! \" Why Chris can't satisfy me and I must go elsewhere\"
Chapter 1
Who said you couldn't \"Do It\" in a beetle
-
Hi Shane sorry to hear about what happened with your engine give me a call when you can at 604-340-7223 thanks Ryan :D
-
Thanks alot Shane! How did I get draged into this? My car will be running tonight. Soooooooo that means yours is the slowest now! :P By the way, do you still have a spare helmut?
-
Soooooooo that means yours is the slowest now!
I guess it's a green car thing to be slow....
Good to hear it will be running - you need a better time on the top 10!
-
Brian unlike you, I dont need to race at all this year to stay in the top ten...
And you got dragged into it by the Double Chin comment!
You built a faster motor and your still gonna get knocked out of the top ten,
Ofcourse I have a helmet for you to use..
-
Thats not what your wife said the other night.........
.......I have always been waiting for a good time to use that line :P
THat is cool... Cuz Courtenay and I have been writing her book! \" Why Chris can't satisfy me and I must go elsewhere\"
Chapter 1
Who said you couldn't \"Do It\" in a beetle
do what in a beetle?? drive down the 1/4 mile and keep your car together?? I called mission and they are still cleaning up the oil
-
21 seconds!!! Are you crazy! Im thinking 30 sec's Its not a 1300 you know there hot rod!!
Cheers!