AirSpeed VW Community Forums
Technical => Engine Tech Forum => Topic started by: Jerome on October 02, 2010, 08:49:53 PM
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Here are the pics of Tony Hill's stoker...
Let me know what you guys think I have here. It seems all stock except for pistons jugs and crank. You can see in the photos I have the measurements on the digital caliper. By those measurements it is a 2180cc. I am wondering if the Cam is stock or something aftermarket??? Is there any easy way to tell? Should I go through it all or just throw new pistons and jugs on it?....
Anyway here is a lik to the photos.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=110237141944137194184&target=ALBUM&id=5523652424635744769&authkey=Gv1sRgCNGr3Kenya26MQ&feat=email (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=110237141944137194184&target=ALBUM&id=5523652424635744769&authkey=Gv1sRgCNGr3Kenya26MQ&feat=email)
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At a quick glance it looks like miss matched late cimas (1.5-2-4 rings) with either early ones on the other side or NPR's (2-2-4). Cast crank, stock rods, stock rockers (could be brazilian 1.25) swivel feet. Lightend 8 dowel flywheel.
Basic 2180cc, you need to get a new set of P&c's at the least. I'm sure it's way out of balance with those mish mash of pistons.
Pull the oil pump and take a pic of the cam, there should be a number stamped into it (if it's from one of the big cam builders) If Shadbolt did it then you will have to take it to him or colt cams to find out what it is.
The rebuild should be straight forward for the most part, get a new 26-30mm HD pump, main, rod , cam bearings and a good German Elring gasket set. Re use the cam if it's good otherwise choose a cam that will work well for your driving conditions and install new lifters.
What kind of engine do you want? Daily driver? Mild street strip? or?
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At a quick glance it looks like miss matched late cimas (1.5-2-4 rings) with either early ones on the other side or NPR's (2-2-4). Cast crank, stock rods, stock rockers (could be brazilian 1.25) swivel feet. Lightend 8 dowel flywheel.
Basic 2180cc, you need to get a new set of P&c's at the least. I'm sure it's way out of balance with those mish mash of pistons.
Pull the oil pump and take a pic of the cam, there should be a number stamped into it (if it's from one of the big cam builders) If Shadbolt did it then you will have to take it to him or colt cams to find out what it is.
The rebuild should be straight forward for the most part, get a new 26-30mm HD pump, main, rod , cam bearings and a good German Elring gasket set. Re use the cam if it's good otherwise choose a cam that will work well for your driving conditions and install new lifters.
What kind of engine do you want? Daily driver? Mild street strip? or?
I would like a mild street engine. Good torque but something that doesn't " give up the ghost " too early. I had a 95 Golf 2.0L cross flow " bubble Block " that I really LOVED to drive. I would like to have a similar power delivery... Is 150+ HP too much to ask from an engine this size?
I also checked the Heads today. P/N 041 101 375 2. I think these are the Brazilian made ones. I've heard they 'were' good in the 80's but the 044's are better. Should I consider buying some new 044's or modify the 041's or leave them as they are ( stock )...?
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Just pulled the oil pump off and the stampings are reallly light. but I think they are " 32 012 " with an " A " on the lower half
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Just piping in, I just bought a 1968 Magazine written by Ron Farmer with two articales with tony hill, One talking about how he went to the salt flats to challenge the land speed record and also about coming back across the border and them detaining him due to his spare tranny and using a previous issue of the mag to show them he has a write up including his spare tranny so they could let him back into Canada
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You gotta post a scan of that article!
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Just pulled the oil pump off and the stampings are reallly light. but I think they are " 32 012 " with an " A " on the lower half
Some pics of the camshaft. Any ideas what it is?
(https://airspeedparts.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_SEmTQSVIeTE%2FTNjGS_y_0JI%2FAAAAAAAAATo%2FhxyhIX75ChY%2Fs640%2FIMG_5317.JPG&hash=c0dc83f7a5b0abcaa3dc78a99c2e1a00af99a341)
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Just pulled the oil pump off and the stampings are reallly light. but I think they are " 32 012 " with an " A " on the lower half
Some pics of the camshaft. Any ideas what it is?
(https://airspeedparts.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_SEmTQSVIeTE%2FTNjGS_y_0JI%2FAAAAAAAAATo%2FhxyhIX75ChY%2Fs640%2FIMG_5317.JPG&hash=c0dc83f7a5b0abcaa3dc78a99c2e1a00af99a341)
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Does anyone have ANY ideas what cam is in here??? I am really clueless on this one....
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I'm starting to do the math and figure out what I need to put into this motor and am wondering if my 041 ( 32x38 ) heads will be any good on this engine. It is 82 x 92 which comes out to 2180cc. I am thinking these heads will be a bit small. Ideas? As far as a cam goes I was thinking something like an Engle W-120 And if I'm changing heads is there any good reason to go for a 94mm bore? I would be halfway there... Maybe you know someone with larger valved heads fs?
Jerome
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Hey Jerome, how did you figure it was an 86 stroke? I don't think I've ever seen a cast crank that large.
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I have heard of 86 mm cranks. Not common though. I measured with a calliper set on the top of the cylinder BDC to TDC. ( used the long dowel / pin that extends out the end )I'll measure again.
Okay I'm a tard. Its 82mm lol_hitting Dunno how I got 86 but thats what I came to the first time.. oops. sorry guys.
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Hey Jerome Where'd you get that beast?
If it was mine I'd slap a smaller cam in maybe 269-275 duration, looks like you might already have a set of 1.25:1 rockers, get a set of heads with the 40x35.5 valves already cut for the 94 and then get a set of 94x82 A&A brand pistons and cylinders and cut the bottom of the barrells to fit your block.
Use a set of 40 idf or hpmx with 32 vents or a set of 44s out of the box and you will have a street pounder that will have big torque right from 1000 rpm to 4500 and live forever.
my 2cents,
Gary.
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Good info Gary but also keep in mind that's a cast crank with probably a lot of hard miles already so if you want to get power out of that engine expect it to have a short life span and break near the center main and or sheer the dowls off. Low hp and gentle starts will make it last longer but think of having the crank checked for cracks before using it!
G.
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It's probably a vintage Treuhaft 32-012 camshaft which was similar to the Engle W-110. Have you measured it yet?
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No I haven't measured the cam yet. Been side tracked on the new baby's room ::) Was thinking of just replacing the mystery cam with an engle 110, if no-one had any ideas. A few Q's....
1) Do you mean to reduce the diameter of the barrel " sleeve " where it inserts into the block to 92mm?
2) Why reduce the duration? I have an idea why, but why but why would you?
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;)If it's a cast crank I would at least take it apart and measure it with a micromiter as they also wear out faster than a forged one and they do crack, make sure it rings if you tap it with a hammer and the dowels might shear off with slicks. If you go that far just get the case machined for 94's! 94's, 82 Forged crank= 2276cc and a 125 cam would be my choice with 40x35 044 heads with double springs and double check the rockers and see if they are 1.25's. Sell the cast crank, 1.25 rockers and the 041's at a swap meet!
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If you are going to check it for cracks, do it properly using magnetic particle inspection (Magnaflux)
I have seen plenty of cranks that rung like a bell with cracks in every rod journal radius.
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My concern with 94mm jugs is how the machining intrudes on the cyl head bolts. Lots of guys seem to do it, but doesn't it lessen the "bite" the threads have in the case & heads?
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My concern with 94mm jugs is how the machining intrudes on the cyl head bolts. Lots of guys seem to do it, but doesn't it lessen the "bite" the threads have in the case & heads?
I share your concern, as my OEM mag case was already close to the case savers, so I installed "slip-in" 94 Mahles, that fit the 90.5/92 case holes. Three years racing and street driving, no issues so far. Got them from www.lowbugget.com
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Picked up a supercharger..... Now I'm in trouble! lol_hitting
Was considering turbo, but this will be much more suitable for a driver. Just have to figure out how to mount it. Was thinking of Holly 4 barrel
The intake is on the end and the exhaust on the bottom. Some guy bought it for a snowmobile, but it wouldn't run. Considering it should have enough blow for a 4 litre I can understand why!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_SEmTQSVIeTE/TWsO_UtWlWI/AAAAAAAAAoQ/R0Sn749ACyI/s512/IMG_0306.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_SEmTQSVIeTE/TWsO_7pzsFI/AAAAAAAAAoU/-Nm57d2XR1E/s512/IMG_0307.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_SEmTQSVIeTE/TWsPAPWbAyI/AAAAAAAAAoY/JdhnAVMqVUg/s512/IMG_0311.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_SEmTQSVIeTE/TWsPAr_McUI/AAAAAAAAAoc/F4Oyw9OqOSo/s512/IMG_0312.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_SEmTQSVIeTE/TWsPA2V2l4I/AAAAAAAAAog/wT23q73Kfq4/s512/IMG_0314.jpg)
Anyone seen a blown Type1 before? Had one? Driven one?
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Blown vw's go back to the 60's..... You can buy a few complete kits for them. The most popular lately was the DLI. Dick Landy that used a B&M blower. Lot's of info out there on them.
Before you bolt more power onto that engine I'd still recomend at least having that crank checked.
Here's one from 1961
Dick Beith 1961 36hp Landspeed record
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No-qUcE8WdM
(https://airspeedparts.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcQP8_w9jZkWFVsvypZGGESvCtfa3_Dqyl4MU1iwSquW9onWY5dG&hash=bd9b99d43e6e57f66ddafe109ead0010ec36d3bc)
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http://aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?fid=13&tid=65678&action=printable
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1970 Popular Hot Rodding mag
(https://airspeedparts.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5252%2F5484678920_14f5f48da3_b_d.jpg&hash=e771a8025c57e1431ea47aa9c283d9a22f8c8ddd)
Similar to the ones used on Studebakers/Avanti , puts out 25 pounds of Boost @ 7000 rpm and 300 HP on the Dyno.
Rob
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Okay, tore it down tonight. I am sure it has a cast crank now. Made by LEPE in Brasil. Its gonna have to go in favour of a cast. Rods are VW. Still not sure on the make of the cam. It may be a treuhaft as someone mentioned previously. There are some markings on it that someone may recognize. Any and all comments on what you see in the video would be appreciated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9jhOBR7pR4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9jhOBR7pR4)
Jerome
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Definitely a cast crank. The supercharger is now off the table. So are slicks.
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Definitely a cast crank. The supercharger is now off the table. So are slicks.
Just need to put in a new crank, too late to turn back on the supercharger.