Author Topic: What Piston For Everyday Driven  (Read 5261 times)

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Offline egspot

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What Piston For Everyday Driven
« on: December 20, 2005, 08:39:45 AM »


Daily driven building, 94 mm MAHLE / CIMA or AA.


What is best?


Emilio

Offline James Buchan

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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2005, 09:11:28 AM »
This should stir the pot - Most people who want a cool running everyday driver run a Mahle 90.5 I on the other hand I have heard of many people that run a 94mm as a daily combo (mild CR etc) without problem. As far as brand I don't know much about the AA as they are fairly new on the market Mahle's have been around a long time and most people run them.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2005, 09:11:58 AM by James Buchan »

Offline Geoff

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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2005, 11:59:22 AM »
As for pistons either the Cima or AA will work fine. Like James said the AA's are new so we don't have a lot of high milage cars to compare to.
That being said there are two types of AA pistons. The forged and the \"cast\" as they are known, the latter being the same as the Cima. The forged 94's are more a street strip piston as they are not offset like a factory piston (cima-cast AA)

We stock all of the above sets and we also balance all our pistons here in house. Be careful if you buy a set somewhere else as they can be WAY off.

Geoff.

Offline Bruce

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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2005, 12:25:51 AM »
At the risk of being a parrot, I have heard of one instance of pretty low mileage use of the AA cylinders where the factory cross-hatching was gone.  The ring sealing was still good, but a comparable Cima would have still had cros-hatching.  This suggests a Cima would live for more miles.

Offline AlanU

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« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2005, 12:44:55 PM »
Quote
At the risk of being a parrot, I have heard of one instance of pretty low mileage use of the AA cylinders where the factory cross-hatching was gone.  The ring sealing was still good, but a comparable Cima would have still had cros-hatching.  This suggests a Cima would live for more miles.
Another way to look at cross hatch is piston ring seal.

Cima rings are chromoly which are typically the harder type of piston rings to seal. If they are not broken in well with load in the begining they can take some time in cylinder/ring seal.

My forged AA's have less blowby compared to my cima 94's with 2nd ring total seal. With only 1500kms on my 2332 the cross hatches no loger exist



hehehe how can you tell I drive with no airfilters  :o

I suspect the grant cast rings supplied by AA have more aggressive seating. I was talking to BEAR in hawaii (pioneer vw racer) and he uses the cast type AA's and loves them. On the island there are alot of guys driving around with those cast slipper skirt pistons. He'd mentioned better cylinder seal with AA's.

I'd say its unknown to how those AA cylinders hold for a daily driver since they are so new.

 

Offline AlanU

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« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2005, 12:45:31 PM »
dbl post
« Last Edit: December 25, 2005, 12:47:35 PM by AlanU »

Offline Bugboy696

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« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2005, 09:43:39 PM »
I'm looking at closer to 20# boost this year in the bug and I'm kinda getting worried about my cima/mahle pistons... The AA Forged pistons seem like a step up from what I have read.

Or should I be looking at JE or wiseco pistons?

Can't find much on comparisions of these products

Offline Boost_Retard

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« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2005, 10:24:29 AM »
Not trying to Hijack, but i talked to kona about some of his AA stuff he has for sale..spent a good time talking about his pistions..

I myself am interested in a set of his 92mms, wich at this moment, does not have the option for 92mm true forged pistions..

I, Like yourself (bugboy696) want to run around 20PSI of boost on the new motor.. and told kona just that..
he said he has seen people run upwards of 30PSI on these hyperpnuemetic (LOL i cant spell) cast pistions and they held well untill the breaking point...he told me that they would work but that a true forged should be a better bet.. thing is, if it costs 90 bucks for his bare cyls and 145 for the cyls with pistions and rings..thats only 55 bucks for 4 decent new pistions and rings... it would be worth it to buy them and keep them as spares..they gotta be at least as strong as a cima..and i have watched those take some serious shit and abuse....altho i have also seen them turn to dust (thanks hulk:) )
does anyone here run these sliper skirt cast pistions? any comments on them?

Has anyone ever run autocraft pistions? im working on a deal to buy a used set from kona..i have never been much for buying used parts but they look to be in great shape...any comments on what i should check? ring lands? its been a while since i have seen an autocraft pistion...what were they worth back in the day? do they compare to a wiesco or a JE?

Cale
« Last Edit: December 26, 2005, 10:58:17 AM by Boost_Retard »

Offline AlanU

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« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2005, 11:02:29 AM »
If you look at products carefully out there you'll notice even Jaycee is selling cylinder that are black powdercoated just like the AA ones.

I cant see many companies out there literally developing piston and cylinder products from scratch.

Cale why 92?? waste in my opinion. 94's are a simple bolt on. Its not like your going with 96.5mm pistons! You might aswell take advantage of 2mm more with a 94.

I'd say anyone concerned/worried with pistons just buy JE or weisco's. Why think about it when your getting closer and closer to the limits. They've been proven over the years.

AA's true forged seems to have proven themselves over the short duration of time on the market. I've used mine for 1 season and they work. If they screw up who cares I'll just buy another set but I doubt they will screw up. Convenient that they use the exact same rings as a cima.

Offline Boost_Retard

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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2005, 11:45:41 AM »
I am going with the thick wall 92mm pistion and cyl setup (same OD as 94) basicly for peice of mind in regards to life span and reliablility in a off road race motor, wich will be run hard for 10 laps at a time.. and also used way up in the bush..where low RPM high load high heat is a problem.

I also feel that the 92s will live a longer high boost life than the 94s..and have better head sealing...and a stronger case (case end will be cut for 90.5/92)

for the 100CCs im loosing out on, i think that it will be \"repaid\" in a longer living cooler running stronger motor..wich might even be a little less prone to detonation due to the smaller bore..

96.5...just go 101.6! :)

Offline AlanU

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« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2005, 04:05:31 PM »
Quote
for the 100CCs im loosing out on, i think that it will be "repaid" in a longer living cooler running stronger motor..wich might even be a little less prone to detonation due to the smaller bore..

 
I wouldn't really think bore size has a significant variable to reduce detonation. Detonation aka pinging is caused usually by two flame fronts meeting one another. Heat, timing, hot spots, octane level, crappy hot plugs and other variables is the cause of detonation. I've really never seen documented claims of bore size as a contributor or reducer of detonation.

In the hotstreet/hardcore vw world I dont really think theres such a thing as a long living motor. They are ALL GRENADE motors. You would think mild 2L and smaller are the ones more for longevity in mind. People should be pulling apart their engines for maintenance in an engine that is pushed to its limits after some brutal miles anyways.

I think warpage is the big issue.  I guess another way to look at things with a thicker 92 cylinder  is that if its significantly thicker than a 94mm cylinder it'll take that much more time to diffuse heat. I couldn't see a thicker cylinder increase the time it takes to hit operating temps.

Cale with your setup just buy a set of 94 JE or Weiscos and get a set of cima cylinders and be done with. If those cylinders warp (highly doubtful) just buy a new set of bare cylinders for 70+ bucks USD.

for now my cheapass AA true forged seems to be working fine.

Offline Boost_Retard

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« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2005, 05:03:27 PM »
By what i have read in engine building books..bore size does have an affect on detonation...to some degree..
im not sure of the specifics..but i could dig them up.. im not saying that it will make any real diff between a 94mm and a 92 though...i think the bigger bore just gives more room for trouble :) and a harder to cool and lubricate pistion

i need to think more about it but im not sure i agree with you on the diffuse heat end of the scale..

a thicker cylinder could store more heat before breaking down then a thinner cylinder...but i cant see how it would be harder to cool...temp is temp is it not? if the motor only gets so hot...it should only take so much to cool it down dont you think?

warpage is a problem.. thats why everyone says Nay on the 87 slip ins and the 92s....so if thinner is worse...thicker should be better...

LOL i guess this topic has been somewhat hi jacked...sorry!

all in all...if you could find any reason for me NOT to wanna run thick wall 92s..i am all ears...but other than the 100ccs of extra displacement and some extra unshrouding i can see zero advantage to me running 94s...
especially in my application...where outright power aint nothing if it dont make it home

i really think all type 1 high performance motors are grenade motors because people build them that way..
i think it all depends on what you expect from your motor. for drag use or street use even...94mm should be fine..its proven..it works..and its cheap displacement..go to the off road race track and see how many type 1 motors you find..i bet...2..maybe a 1600DP and possibly an 1835 with a bugspray..gettin toasted by everthing else.. it seems like people gave up on high power reliable type 1 motors for this offroad racing.. my goal is to build a somewhat reliable high powerd race quality type 1 motor..pretty much to prove people wrong.. that is why i think the TW 92s better suite my needs
im not saying its a SMART idea...but its just what i need to do...if the TW 92s get proven as a stupid idea i will run 94s no problem..hell..an extra 100CCs would be great!

i am waiting for an e mail..but if all works out i will be running TW92s and autocraft 92mm pistions.

Cale
« Last Edit: December 26, 2005, 07:12:09 PM by Boost_Retard »

Offline jim martin

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« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2005, 09:41:20 PM »
just had to add ,without getting to far off topic .i think alot of people are/have been sucked into the aftermarket must have /use gapless ring thing.meaning someone told me to use a gapless 2nd ring because it makes more dyno hp.i believe there is a time and place for all products and some street motors and nitrous/turbo motors are not a place for that gapless ring desighn.first a ring has a more important job than sealing the combustion chamber ,which is taking the heat from the piston crown and transfering it to the cylinder walls.in that way you lower the piston crown tempature which will aid in lowering detenation caused by heat.when you use a gapless second ring which alows zero pressure loss past it, that causes the pressure on both sides of the top ring to become equal.equal pressure means no combustion force to push the top ring against the cylinder wall .so less piston crown cooling and less sealing is the result.so the gapless second needs to be doing a lot of work.also this overheating top ring can start to deform causing excessive cylinder wall wear.evertime i have pulled my motor apart i have tryed a differant ring combo and experimented with gap /product,while monitering wear/leakage and most of all oil consomption .my advise is stay away from a gapless second ring use a tool steel top ring and use a larger gap on the second ring than the top.this way the top ring will absorb the abuse and with the stagerd ring gaps there will be 2 levels of pressure forcing the the top and second rings against the walls .causing better heat transfer and sealing.
--just had to add, i took a closser look at alans cylinder shot and look at how much oil is getting past the rings as evedent by the build up near the top edge.that is bad news for a turbo/nitrous motor,i have some doubts about the AA cylinders as well .
alan is the picture a AA CYLINDER and what rings / gaps are used in the picture you posted as well as cylinder wall clearance
« Last Edit: December 26, 2005, 09:56:30 PM by jim martin »




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Offline AlanU

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« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2005, 02:01:36 AM »
Jim,

You'll never see me using gapless rings ever again.

Those are grant cast rings with AA cylinders and true forged pistons. I have no specs on the cylinder wall clearance. The cast rings are aggressive.

Just to tell you I'm using 15+dollars a liter on Elf PAO synthethic on my 2nd oil change. I wonder if thats another issue of not getting piston ring breakin.

As far as staggering ring gaps I would be certain that its just a short term assembly deal and as your drive your car the gaps will lineup from time to time.

Offline Bugboy696

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« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2005, 10:03:57 AM »
From the info that I've read the AA pistons are pretty good bang for the buck, but everyone says to stay away from there cylinders???  
They say that they're usually way outta spec with being outta round, sometimes the sealing surface against the head hasn't been the best and that the material isnt great.


I want to try out those new jaycee aluminum nickasil cylinders, how about 100degree temp drop on the cylinders!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/det...l.php?id=252207

Offline AlanU

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« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2005, 11:15:25 AM »
Quote

I want to try out those new jaycee aluminum nickasil cylinders, how about 100degree temp drop on the cylinders!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/det...l.php?id=252207
one thing to ask yourself is what rings will work well with Nickasil and when its time to hone those cylinders who's gonna do it??? Theres a possibility that most machine shops wont be able to. Unless those machine shops do alot of exotic cars like ferrari for example.

Another question you ask is who HASN'T used the grant rings provided by AA.  Most people use the GRANT Cast aggressive rings so this may be the reason for losing the cross hatch quickly. I wonder if people used the chromoly cima rings on AA cylinders and get the same results in cross hatch removal.

Man if in doubt just buy Je or weiscos and buy bare cima cylinders and your done.

Offline jim martin

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« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2005, 04:13:24 PM »
alan those cylinders are finnished  and need to be rehoned and rerung.would be interested to know if they are round,i'm really doughting the quality of those barrels,what i was talking about when i said staggered gap was not about the position of the ring's on the piston but the size of the end gap of each ring.the second needs to be larger .
when i look at your photo i'm sure there is a combination of things that lead up to the loss of your cross hatch. to rich a fuel mixture/wrong end gap/too tight wall clearance/synthetic oil on break in/impropper break in procedure.
just looked at my old set of cima's and a special ring pack.1/2 the hatch is still there with almost zero trace of oil consumption ,finally a good combination for street use which in turn does also uses a zero gap ring.
i had found this discription a while back on cylinder break in and i'm sure everyone that reads it will better understand what is going on with rings and cylinder wall prep.there is some damb good info in it.i'm sure you can pick up on somethings that you can change next time around ,as i have as well.
give me a shout if you need more info .i've been down that ring trail many times.



The first few hundred miles of a new engine's life have a major impact on how strongly that engine will perform, how much oil it will consume and how long it will last. The main purpose of break-in is to seat the compression rings to the cylinder walls. We are talking about the physical mating of the engine's piston rings to it's corresponding cylinder wall. That is, we want to physically wear the new piston rings into the cylinder wall until a compatible seal between the two is achieved.
Proper engine break in will produce an engine that achieves maximum power output with the least amount of oil consumption due to the fact that the piston rings have seated properly to the cylinder wall. When the piston rings are broken in or seated, they do not allow combustion gases to escape the combustion chamber past the piston rings into the crankcase section of the engine. This lack of \"blow-by\" keeps your engine running cleaner and cooler by preventing hot combustion gases and by-products from entering the crankcase section of the engine. Excessive \"blow-by\" will cause the crankcase section of the engine to become pressurized and contaminated with combustion gases, which in turn will force normal oil vapors out of the engine's breather, causing the engine to consume excessive amounts of oil.
In addition to sealing combustion gases in the combustion chamber, piston rings must also manage the amount of oil present on the cylinder walls for lubrication. If the rings do not seat properly, they cannot perform this function and will allow excessive amounts of oil to accumulate on the cylinder wall surfaces. This oil is burned each and every time the cylinder fires. The burning of this oil, coupled with \"blow-by\" induced engine breathing, are reasons that an engine that hasn't been broken in will consume more than its share of oil.
When a cylinder is new or overhauled the surface of it's walls are honed with abrasive stones to produce a rough surface that will help wear the piston rings in. This roughing up of the surface is known as \"cross-hatching\". A cylinder wall that has been properly \"cross hatched\" has a series of minute peaks and valleys cut into its surface. The face or portion of the piston ring that interfaces with the cross hatched cylinder wall is tapered to allow only a small portion of the ring to contact the honed cylinder wall. When the engine is operated, the tapered portion of the face of the piston ring rubs against the coarse surface of the cylinder wall causing wear on both objects.
Each tiny groove acts as the oil reservoir holding oil up to the top level of the groove where it then spreads over the peak surface. The piston ring must travel up and down over this grooved surface, and must \"hydroplane\" on the oil film retained by the grooves. Otherwise, the ring would make metal-to-metal contact with the cylinder wall and the cylinder would quickly wear out.  
 

However the ring will only ride on this film of oil if there is sufficient surface area to support the ring on the oil. When the cylinders are freshly honed the peaks are sharp with little surface area. Our goal when seating the rings on new steel cylinders is to flatten out these peaks to give more surface area to support the rings, while leaving the bottom of the groove intact to hold enough oil to keep the surface of the cylinder wet with oil. See illustration. At the point where the top of the peaks produced by the honing operation become smooth and the tapered portion of the piston ring wears flat break in has occurred.
When the engine is operating, a force known as Break Mean Effective Pressure or B.M.E.P is generated within the combustion chamber. B.M.E.P. is the resultant force produced from the controlled burning of the fuel air mixture that the engine runs on. The higher the power setting the engine is running at, the higher the B.M.E.P. is and conversely as the power setting is lowered the B.M.E.P. becomes less.
B.M.E.P is an important part of the break in process. When the engine is running, B.M.E.P. is present in the cylinder behind the piston rings and it's force pushes the piston ring outward against the coarse honed cylinder wall. Piston rings are designed to take advantage of the pressure and us it to push the rings out against the cylinder wall. Therefore, as pressure builds during the compression stroke, the rings are pushed harder against the cylinder wall which aids in seating the rings.
The higher the B.M.E.P, the harder the piston ring is pushed against the wall. The surface temperature at the piston ring face and cylinder wall interface will be greater with high B.M.E.P. than with low B.M.E.P. This is because we are pushing the ring harder against the rough cylinder wall surface causing high amounts of friction and thus heat. The primary deterrent of break in is this heat. Allowing to much heat to build up at the ring to cylinder wall interface will cause the lubricating oil that is present to break down and glaze the cylinder wall surface. This glaze will prevent any further seating of the piston rings. If glazing is allowed to happen break in will never occur. Also, if too little pressure (throttle) is used during the break-in period glazing will also occur.
Most people seem to operate on the philosophy that they can best get their money's worth from any mechanical device by treating it with great care. This is probably true, but in many cases it is necessary to interpret what great care really means. This is particularly applicable when considering the break-in of a modern, reciprocating engine.
For those who still think that running the engine hard during break-in falls into the category of cruel and unusual punishment, there is one more argument for using high power loading for short periods (to avoid excessive heat) during the break-in. The use of low power settings does not expand the piston rings enough, and a film of oil is left on the cylinder walls. The high temperatures in the combustion chamber will oxidize this oil film so that it creates glazing of the cylinder walls. When this happens, the ring break-in process stops, and excessive oil consumption frequently occurs. The bad news is that extensive glazing can only be corrected by removing the cylinders and rehoning the walls. This is expensive, and it is an expense that can be avoided by proper break in procedures.
We must achieve a happy medium where we are pushing on the ring hard enough to wear it in but not hard enough to generate enough heat to cause glazing. Once again, if glazing should occur, the only remedy is to remove the effected cylinder, re-hone it and replace the piston rings and start the whole process over again.
We asked four top motorcycle engine builders what they do to ensure peak power output and optimum engine life. Here is a capsulation of their responses.
\"If the wrong type of oil is used initially, or the break-in is too easy, rings and cylinders could (read will) glaze and never seal properly. A fresh cylinder wall needs some medium to high engine loading to get the piston rings to seat properly for good compression but make sure you don't lug or overheat the engine. Use high quality, low viscosity oil (Valvoline 30 weight), no synthetics, too slippery. If synthetics are used during initial break in the rings are sure to glaze over.
An engine's initial run should be used to bring oil and coolant (air, oil, and/or water) up to operating temperature only, with little or no load, then shut down and allowed to cool to ambient temperature. This is important. After each run the engine needs to completely cool down to ambient temperature. In Texas, especially in the summer, that's still pretty hot. After a cool down period, start it up again and take the motorcycle for it's fist ride (you hope).
This time give the engine light loads at relatively low rpm and stay out of top gear. Lugging the engine, i.e., low RPM with a lot of throttle (manifold pressure), is more detrimental than high rpm. Another key is too constantly vary engine load during the entire break-in period. A constant load is not ideal for breaking in bearing tolerances. This second run should last only 10-15 minutes before another complete cool down.
The third run should see slightly higher rpm with light to medium power loading using short bursts of acceleration to help seat the rings. Again 10-15 minutes of running should do it and again avoid top gear. A forth run should consist of light to medium engine loads with a few more bursts of medium-high rpm, and lasting just 10-15 minutes varying the engine load and again avoiding top gear. Next while the engine is still warm drain the oil and change the filter. This gets out the new metal particles that are being worn away. Most of the metal particles will break away within the first 50 -75 miles. To ensure the rings seat well, use the same high quality oil and don't be shy about short duration high rpm blasts through the lower gears after the oil has been changed.
A few more 15-20 minute sessions should be used to work up to the engine's redline gradually increasing the engine loads. After some definite hard running and 250-500 miles it's a good idea to check the valves. After 500 miles re-torqueing the head is suggested. Switch to synthetic oil but not before 500-1500 miles. Most of the engine experts warned of the danger of breaking in the engine too easily and ending up with an engine that will always run slow whether it is from tight tolerances, inadequate ring seal or carbon buildup. Engine load is more detrimental than rpm because of the head created internally, so avoid lugging the engine but rev it freely especially in the lower gears. Basically, be sure not to get it too hot but be sure to seat the rings properly.
So that's it, sure a lot different than keeping under 4000 rpm for 500 miles then under 5000 rpm for 1000 miles. Maybe bike manufacturers are being super cautious at the expense of your motor's performance? I think that they take the cautious route that works over time (1000 miles, or about 20 hours of break in) versus a faster route that can be more easily screwed up.\"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
« Last Edit: December 27, 2005, 05:39:35 PM by jim martin »




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Offline AlanU

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« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2005, 06:48:38 PM »
checked all my ring gaps and all within spec when I assembled. As far as rich condition I say absolutely not since my techedge wideband made that thing purr.

No oil consumption whatsover either.

Less blowby with my AA's then my Cima's with TS gapless second ring.

She's probably gonna go 1 more season with the shortblock untouched. My other new dpr 2332 shorblock will be running tool steel lifters and my old cima's with grant rings.

Offline egspot

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« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2005, 06:56:26 PM »
Quote
Not trying to Hijack
Again,

Reliability, and relative maintained speed on highway.

Longe project than expected. Daily driven building, 94mm MAHLE / CIMA or AA or is there a thicker cylinders set of 92mm that will fit into a 94mm bored block?


What is best?


Emilio
« Last Edit: December 27, 2005, 06:57:19 PM by egspot »

Offline AlanU

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« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2005, 07:21:21 PM »
Quote
Again,

Reliability, and relative maintained speed on highway.

Longe project than expected. Daily driven building, 94mm MAHLE / CIMA or AA or is there a thicker cylinders set of 92mm that will fit into a 94mm bored block?


What is best?


Emilio
cima 94 kit.

I wouldn't even bother with a 92mm with thick walls (if ever available)

Offline jim martin

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« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2005, 07:22:33 PM »
sorry lost track of what the post was about :D  
« Last Edit: December 27, 2005, 07:43:38 PM by jim martin »




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Offline jim martin

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« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2005, 07:33:58 PM »
Quote
Daily driven building, 94 mm MAHLE / CIMA or AA.


What is best?


Emilio
got it.
if you are 100%going to use a 94mm cylinder.
i would use a cima piston/cylinder set-up and if you could find a old set with the 2mm top instead of the newer 1.5mm top ring that would be even better.
--the reason i'm saying cima over AA is from what i have seen the cima is a better quality cylinder.you can paint the barrles black if you want as well.in the end heat dissipiation and the ability of the cylinder to keep it's shape when torqued is what will make them last.make sure your cooling system is in great shape and everthing measures out before assembley.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2005, 07:39:15 PM by jim martin »




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Offline Bruce

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« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2005, 01:16:30 AM »
Quote

cima 94 kit.

I wouldn't even bother with a 92mm with thick walls (if ever available)
What if you wanted the engine to last 100k miles?

Offline AlanU

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« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2005, 11:35:40 AM »
Quote
Quote

cima 94 kit.

I wouldn't even bother with a 92mm with thick walls (if ever available)
What if you wanted the engine to last 100k miles?
Bruce I'd ask you if I wanted an aircooled to last 100k miles. Hey speak Km's your a canuck 160934.4 kilometers.

It'd be interesting to see if the AA cylinders hold up aswell as cima's. Time will tell.

The kind of abuse you give your engines Bruce your piston skirts would probably collapse well before 160934.4 kilometers. You mean you dont hear any piston slappy  :huh:  jk!

Offline Boost_Retard

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« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2005, 12:50:22 PM »
Has anyone around here given the cryo treating a try?
i think it could possibly help with some of the AA cylinder issues people here have brought up.

i dont really know allot about it..but from what i have read it seems to give metal a little more wear resistance..

could help the AAcyls last longer... or just buy cimas :)
i am going to have all my internal parts cryoed before the motor goes together..i might even have the case done...its worth a try..and its cheap.

Cale

Offline egspot

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« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2005, 10:52:07 AM »


Project on the go. The block has been bored to 94mm. Talking to a friend, he said it would be a screamer (fast but no very lasting.) So I am thinking (with great difficulty) I have to go with at least a 78mm crank. Does anyone have an idea how much this would cost in terms of crankshaft, rods, pistons, cylinders, and heads?

I was told to make a budget for it (but it has become a public budget) and the more I think, the more it is going to cost me.


Thanks for any hints or ideas you can provide.

Emilio

Offline Geoff

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« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2006, 01:15:53 PM »
Give me a shout at the shop monday, I have some good deals coming soon.
Geoff.