Author Topic: Gl-4 Tranny Fluid Only?  (Read 2135 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kris

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 88
  • Karma: -1
Gl-4 Tranny Fluid Only?
« on: April 27, 2006, 11:10:49 PM »
I have been reading on the samba and everyone is saying DO NOT USE GL-5, only gl-4.  This is for my 1960 bus btw.... But I have been reading stuff about it not working correctly with the syncros and it eating the coating off the gears...

Napa is supposed to have it and be a dealer of it... but no they cant even get it in.,...

I can ONLY find gl-5 in or around kelowna.... does anyone know where to find gl-4... or is it more of a everyone uses gl-5 so just use that kind of a deal?

here are the articles

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic...1&highlight=gl5

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic...ic.php?t=130623

but there are tonnes of them saying that....

what do you guys do?

Offline Bruce

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2912
  • Karma: -65458
Gl-4 Tranny Fluid Only?
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2006, 02:46:45 AM »
Quote
... or is it more of a everyone uses gl-5 so just use that kind of a deal?

 
That's what everyone I know is using.

Those guys on TheSamba are so ignorant it's not funny.  They quote their 30 year old Bentley manual that states you must use GL-4, when GL-5 didn't exist.  Well, guess what, GL-5 is on the way out, GL-6 is the new rating.

This fearmongering is only rampant in the VW world.  If you look at the manual transmission in any Honda, Toyota, Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Volvo, BMW, Porsche, etc., they all use brass syncros just like your VW.  Ask any authorities in their camp and you'll discover they've never heard of this \"problem\".

Go online to any oil company's web site.  Find a contact and send a question to their tech support.  You'll get the same answer I got from Amsoil, and Glenn got from Swepco.  GL-5 with the MT-1 rating is perfectly safe for any gearbox with brass syncros.

Do you believe the oil companies would produce a product that would destroy your gearbox?  In reality, they are all in competition to provide you with the best product they can for the best price.   If there was a risk of damage, there'd be a warning on the label, \"not for use in VW gearboxes\" or something like that.  Have you seen such a warning?  Go and look at the ATF, you will see plenty of warnings.  Fords must use F type ATF.  Look at the antifreeze.  You have pink, green, blue.  You must use the right stuff for your car.  I've never seen any warnings on any gear oil.

I have challenged the ignorant fearmongers to show me one single brass part that has damage from using GL-5.  They can't come up with one single case.

What's the difference you ask?  GL-5 has a much better extreme pressure rating than GL-4.  To achieve this requires higher sulphur content.  Problem is, sulphur is corrosive to brass at really high temperatures.  However, the American Petroleum Institute knows this, so they came up with a formulation to prevent corrosion at any temperature.  This extra formulation has a designation MT-1.  All GL-5 has the MT-1 rating, making it perfectly safe for use in gearboxes with brass syncros.  If you have a gearbox mated to an engine that puts out more than stock hp, you must use GL-5 to get the superior extreme pressure protection.  I have seen plenty of spider gears and side gears that were literally worn out from using gear oil with inferior EP protection over the last 40 years.

Don't waste your time looking for the 8-track of gear oil.  Just like engine oil, today's gear oil is far better than what you could get 30 years ago.  Embrace modern technology.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2006, 02:51:49 AM by Bruce »

Offline Tom H.

  • *
  • Posts: 489
  • Karma: -1
    • http://home.att.net/~drsowatt/index.html
Gl-4 Tranny Fluid Only?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2006, 06:58:34 AM »
yeah what Bruce said. I'm still waiting to see a corroded synchro. too.

Maybe , just maybe, the tranz that was pulled from the '51 swamp split on Monster Garage has a corroded one.  But it wouldn't be the oil that would be to blame. :lol:  
     

Offline AlanU

  • *
  • Posts: 478
  • Karma: 0
    • http://members.shaw.ca/acvw/index.htm
Gl-4 Tranny Fluid Only?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2006, 08:27:58 AM »
soon as I saw this post I knew bruce would chime in.

Use whatever you want because they are all trying to achieve the best shear strength as possible for a gear box with r/p.

If your really concerned get some Ester based synthetic gear oil because it'll have the highest shear strength in the gear oil world. PAO based will be second.

For a nice old greasy tranny dino oil may be better since it wont leak as bad as a synthetic oil. Old trannies probably seep oil throught the gaskets and input shaft area since its old. Synthetic will more than likely find areas like that since synthetics pour thinner but retain the characteristics of a thicker gear oil.

Dont sweat this stuff. Just stick in whatever you want. If you put 75w90 or 75w80 you may have a cleaner shift but monitor the leaks. Or put regular 80-w90 and call it  a day.

Offline kris

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 88
  • Karma: -1
Gl-4 Tranny Fluid Only?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2006, 02:52:33 PM »
Quote
Quote
... or is it more of a everyone uses gl-5 so just use that kind of a deal?

 
That's what everyone I know is using.

Those guys on TheSamba are so ignorant it's not funny.  They quote their 30 year old Bentley manual that states you must use GL-4, when GL-5 didn't exist.  Well, guess what, GL-5 is on the way out, GL-6 is the new rating.

This fearmongering is only rampant in the VW world.  If you look at the manual transmission in any Honda, Toyota, Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Volvo, BMW, Porsche, etc., they all use brass syncros just like your VW.  Ask any authorities in their camp and you'll discover they've never heard of this "problem".

Go online to any oil company's web site.  Find a contact and send a question to their tech support.  You'll get the same answer I got from Amsoil, and Glenn got from Swepco.  GL-5 with the MT-1 rating is perfectly safe for any gearbox with brass syncros.

Do you believe the oil companies would produce a product that would destroy your gearbox?  In reality, they are all in competition to provide you with the best product they can for the best price.   If there was a risk of damage, there'd be a warning on the label, "not for use in VW gearboxes" or something like that.  Have you seen such a warning?  Go and look at the ATF, you will see plenty of warnings.  Fords must use F type ATF.  Look at the antifreeze.  You have pink, green, blue.  You must use the right stuff for your car.  I've never seen any warnings on any gear oil.

I have challenged the ignorant fearmongers to show me one single brass part that has damage from using GL-5.  They can't come up with one single case.

What's the difference you ask?  GL-5 has a much better extreme pressure rating than GL-4.  To achieve this requires higher sulphur content.  Problem is, sulphur is corrosive to brass at really high temperatures.  However, the American Petroleum Institute knows this, so they came up with a formulation to prevent corrosion at any temperature.  This extra formulation has a designation MT-1.  All GL-5 has the MT-1 rating, making it perfectly safe for use in gearboxes with brass syncros.  If you have a gearbox mated to an engine that puts out more than stock hp, you must use GL-5 to get the superior extreme pressure protection.  I have seen plenty of spider gears and side gears that were literally worn out from using gear oil with inferior EP protection over the last 40 years.

Don't waste your time looking for the 8-track of gear oil.  Just like engine oil, today's gear oil is far better than what you could get 30 years ago.  Embrace modern technology.
Bruce is the man!.... thanks for actually answering my question with some theory behind it!! on the samba its just dont use it.... uhhhhhh..... ok???.......

Im just gonna use the gl-5 90wt...... thanks for answering the sulfur question that I was wondering about aswell.....



thanks



kris

Offline Bruce

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2912
  • Karma: -65458
Gl-4 Tranny Fluid Only?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2006, 08:31:45 PM »
The sulphur is what makes gear oil stink.  No stink = no sulphur = poor extreme pressure performance.

I highly recommend you use 75W-90.  You will have much better shifting than if you use 80W-90.  I doubt you will be able to find mono grade straight 90wt.  Most syn gear oil is 75W-90, while most dino is 80W-90.  If you don't want to use syn, but do want the benefits to running 75W-90, take a clean jug up to Kelowna Toyota and they will fill it for you.  75W-90 is so hard to find that the Toyota dealers sell it since they spec it.

Offline Cameron

  • *
  • Posts: 525
  • Karma: 1
Gl-4 Tranny Fluid Only?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2006, 01:02:23 PM »
Quote
yeah what Bruce said. I'm still waiting to see a corroded synchro. too.

Maybe , just maybe, the tranz that was pulled from the '51 swamp split on Monster Garage has a corroded one.  But it wouldn't be the oil that would be to blame. :lol:
I have never see a corroded synchro in a high performance gear box, either.
The synchros usually come out bent, or broken. ;)  


It's an insane world out there... and I'm proud to be part of it!