Author Topic: My Never Ending Project  (Read 18946 times)

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Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2015, 08:15:34 AM »
Dave thanks for the suggestion. It worked out great !!

Putting another question out there attached is a picture of bracing welded onto the  pan for an IRS beetle would this be preferable over a CSP Stiffy (torque Bar Kit) kit? Any Pro's and Con's to this setup. I'll be planning on running around 200 - 250 BHP in her (NA 2332cc). Set up is for some aggressive street and occasional Hill climb driving on paved roads no dirt.  Thanks in advance for any tips or suggestions.

Cheers René

Offline owdlvr

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2015, 09:18:23 PM »
Are you caging the car, or leaving it as is?

Most of the tubing you see on that pan is probably way overkill for what you're looking to do. The CSP Stiffy will be just fine. I suppose in some ways more bracing is always better than less, but the work you see done here is going to make putting the body on a horrible job. I suspect, but don't know for sure, that some of the bracing built in here is required for the Air-Jack system this pan has installed. The entire weight of the car is going to be held by the three vertical pipes you see. Once you brace the frame horns and upper shock mounts, the rear of a beetle is quite strong. The area which is far more of a problem is the A-Pillar line. A hard-driven bug will end up showing fatigue issues at the bottom of the door posts on the a-pillar to heater channel junction.

My GL bug will probably get some similar tube work, but only if I run the air-jack system I've been thinking of. Otherwise it will be just a traditional cage structure.

-Dave
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Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2015, 12:59:28 AM »
Dave thanks,

I'd like to cage the car, but thats still in the air on how far I can go with that for Swiss regulations etc.

And I'm a fairly aggressive driver when no one especially Wife or Police aren't looking to closely lol.

My concern is more getting the car as stiff as possible for handling reasons and body / Chassis fatigue.

But what i need to watch as well is my Wife said if I build it which I am lol. I have to be able to transport the kids, which makes some limits on what I can do to the back seats lol. their safety is of first concern in that case.

With that said with the Munchkins in the car I'm a quite sane driver. but rear seat accessibility and keeping then cage out of impact range to the kids in case of an accident are of quite high priority.

  At the end its a real balancing game on what I can do, whats really needed and feasible and what I can get away with here after its imported.

Which is why i'm looking at any way of stiffening and bracing to get the results I want / need without a Cage if possible. Which brings your point of the A piller as a week point and how to over come that if possible without the need of a roll cage.

Any Idea's would be great.  I haven't ruled out a 6 - 8 point cage with a street car door bar and no x-bar between the front to the back.

thanks Rene

Offline owdlvr

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2015, 10:07:32 PM »
If you're putting kids in the car, DO NOT cage it. They aren't safe without harnesses and helmets, and for a harness to be properly safe they should be uncomfortably tight. You cannot put kids in a caged car safely.

Given that you need the car to transport family, there will be some compromises. I'd run a CB rear bar setup, brace the upper beam (if using a beam) to the floor pan and consider gusseting the lower A-Piller where it joins the heater channel. Outside of that, your car will be plenty snappy enough to please you. You're welcome to come experience the Rally bug, and/or my old '69 if my buddy Scott will let us take it out (he bought it) to see how stiff they are.

-Dave
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Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2015, 10:59:11 AM »
I'd like to take you up on that but unfortunatly distance is a problem :-(

Not quite sure how to gusset the front A Piller without a cage but I'm sure Geoff does, so I'll add that to my list. :-) I couldn't find a stiffy kit or beetle cup bar for the rear from CB but I'm guessing the CSP kit , Bugpack or empi versions would've equivalent which would you recommend Dave?

Would the beetle lend to some floor bracing under the pan? Or to brace the front maybe with some tubing, triangulation bracing in the front luggage compartment tied into the front a pillar bracing Gussets?

Relevant or important right now is figuring everything out that effects the pan / chassis build so that can be finished of and sent off to Russ for powder.

Thanks for your help Dave

Cheers René

Offline owdlvr

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2015, 11:44:28 AM »
I can't remember, and I'm in the garage pulling a motor, are you using a traditional front beam or a mendeola a-arm setup?

You want a 5-Bar Kafer bar setup, presuming you're running without heater boxes. I'll look up the good ones, but pack 3-bar setup needs a lot of mods to make it worth using.
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Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2015, 02:01:09 PM »
Im running a traditional stock width front beam, with Koni's and beam braces of some kind. The rear I have a 915/61 with a conversion kit from Bott fahrzeug technik in DE, 2"Racing Drop plates from Atom werks engineering. I looked at the Mendeola but followed some links you suggested and found that I think I can get the results I want with the Torsion suspension.

What special that I have is I went to short rear torsion bars 26mm but have 19mm sway bars front and rear, am planning on some kind of custom mounts for the Sway bar on the front so that they are mounted to the beam as in the tech notes that you sent me the link to.

I haven't done any bracing yet but think its important to stiffen up the front end some more.
The rear I was more worried about getting the power to the ground without cracking anything when I give her gas :-)
As it will have as much Bhp as what my 89 GT Mustang had and it had some chassis stress going on and was built for that much horse power & torque.

oh and no I'm not running heater boxes, Its a seasonally driven Car, but with that said i will have to figure something out for defogging and heating for spring and fall. But Winter the Car will be parked for the most part.

the CSP kit is a 3 bar kit and the empi kit is 5 bar kit

Thanks for your interest and feed back Dave

René

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2015, 02:31:02 PM »
OK my Car is really in Geoff's shop and its happening Coming to gather great!! Geoff is doing an awesome Job here are some pictures.

a few small hiccups along the way

- missing pedals
- more rust damage than i expected
- missing or can't find some parts lol ( what do you expect its been sitting in pieces for 15 years or so) lol
- and a few small details that im still not certain how it will work out but with Geoff on the job we are finding solutions.

Its been a great week of progress looking forward to see what next week brings :-)
Whats great Geoff is really including me in the progress and sending me pictures to keep me up to date. Awesome guy to work with!!

Thanks Geoff

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2015, 02:32:34 PM »
rusty

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2015, 02:33:24 PM »
more rusty lol

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2015, 02:35:05 PM »
rusty 3 and some work for transaxle fitment

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2015, 02:37:05 PM »
ok I had to show something not so rusty so here are the pedals we ended up picking out to replace the missing ones

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2015, 02:38:56 PM »
Fixing rust and Geoffs suggestion adding an access panel. Great Idea so of course I said go for it.
and a picture of some of the transaxle fitment more to come

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2015, 02:40:57 PM »
Transaxle fitment with the new shifter from Bug@5speed or here in europe Bott Fahrzeug technik
I ordered the complete set up from them. With exception to the used Trans etc.

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2015, 02:41:55 PM »
Geoff Playing in the sand box lol

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2015, 02:43:09 PM »
Mocking up oil cooler lines and test fitting the beam etc.

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2015, 02:44:30 PM »
Rust repair and here you see the finished access panel for getting into the tunnel

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2015, 02:55:15 PM »
Last but not least measurements for the pedals, those arrived today so my Dad should have them to Geoff ASAP
The Pedals i sourced through summit racing as they could get them to me the fastest.
The Master Cylinders for the brakes one front one rear. As  well as all the braided hose for cooler and fuel and remote reservoirs for the brake masters I ordered up from Mopac.

We'll see what else happens this week and start of next.
How much progress we can make before my Budget runs out.

aim is with this stage of the build is to have a rolling Chassis Powder coated and assembled I hope we can get it that far.

Next Stage will be body with lots of bracing and mods, paint, electrical and maybe some interior.

We are adding lots of bracing on the pan and Body because I decided against a roll cage but wanted to get as much stiffness and handling performance as possible. The main reason for no cage is it will be a daily driver and I will have my kids in the car so want to maintain usage of the rear seat. if possible add a 3rd belt in the rear.

Any suggestions are always welcome

Everyone have a great weekend Cheers René
« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 03:24:17 PM by s3racing »

Offline Russ

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2015, 03:21:19 PM »
holy looks great so far

it's in good hands with Geoff

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2015, 03:32:07 PM »
Totally Russ!!
 And as soon as Geoff has it ready it will be on its way to you for some fire engine Red powder coating, and gloss black for the smaller parts. It will look great as well!

Looks like a lot of forum members will have something with her before she is done.

An engine I still need

Interiour

And

Lots of advice along the way of course.
 
It will be a great experience

Thanks guys for your help and advice

Cheers René

Offline owdlvr

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2015, 04:59:28 PM »
Nice choice on the pedal set. My next bug will have a similar setup, but with master's under my heels.

Whats your plan for balance bar / balance setup? Are you running a remote knob or just a set-it and forget it balance bar?

-Dave
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'75 Type 1 - Heirloom
'95 F150 - Unfortunate daily driver...

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2015, 10:27:29 PM »
Dave,

I'm a little split on the Balance bar it comes with an adjustable on the fly one and if you don't use it you can lock it with a couple nuts. But the adjuster knob is separate. I haven't yet ordered that but it's not really expensive either. Just not sure if I will ever use it but would've neat to have.

But image type that says if I add it and never really use it then it's waste of space even if it looks cool.

If was a race car it would totally make sense but it will be 80% of its time street/ daily driver the rest I might get a chance to escape for the odd weekend and run it on a hill climb, drivers training or auto cross. There it probably would make sense.

Dave what's your experience would you add an adjuster knob to the pedal cluster?

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2015, 10:37:42 PM »
I guess for $50.00 it would make sense for the odd time I'd use it. Or would it be waste of space on my dash

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #53 on: March 21, 2015, 01:22:44 AM »
Update from Geoff's progress yesterday

The access panel with stiffening Stick welds, and repair metal welded in to replace all that rust.

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #54 on: March 21, 2015, 01:25:39 AM »
Here you see more stich welds added to the factory beam to stiffen it up
- the mock up of the front steering set up, and the repair panel from the top side again with stich welds so its nice and stiff

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #55 on: March 21, 2015, 01:28:28 AM »
Custom Transaxle mounts with seam welds

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #56 on: March 21, 2015, 01:29:37 AM »
And here you see the 915/61 mounted in its new home.

Awesome Job Geoff definalty the right man for the job!! 

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #57 on: March 21, 2015, 09:43:56 AM »
Sway bar problem any suggestions?? Or ideas? On a different set up of a rear sway bar

Offline s3racing

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2015, 10:08:23 AM »
Could one flip it and mount it on the top side of the car instead of the underside as it is right now?? Or would there be interference there as well??

Offline Geoff

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Re: My Never Ending Project
« Reply #59 on: March 21, 2015, 10:19:53 AM »
There's no room to mount it there. This was just a test fit, I'll try a few things Monday.