Cast Iron Cyls, So Many Brands..so Many Diff $$

[Boost_Retard]

I know cyls like pauters and autocrafts are setup with less cooling fin area..wich makes me think they are thicker (in the fin area) and could possibly take more abuse (untill they got hot)

but if you line up the Jaycee's, the AA's, the cimas, and whatever other noname brands they sell on the samba..and even the autocrafts and the pauters...what makes one set worth 600 bucks and one worth 150 bucks?

the quality of the material used? the quality of the machine work?

i am gonna need some cyls that will take allot of serious abuse...i dont wanna buy cheap junk, but if the cheap ones are basicly the same as the big dollar pauters..why spend the cash when ya dont need 2?

im sure the american made pauters/autocrafts use a better material..and im sure if the cyls compare with anything else they make and sell...are much nicer fit and finish than allot of the made in the land of bamboo cyls.

but does anyone know the facts? i understand the pistions..JEs are nice..strong..light..and BIG$$ but i would say they are worth it..word on the street is that the AAs work, but wont take the abuse that a JE would..i cant remember the alloys off the top of my head..and weiscos weigh in less than a cima..and are comparable with an AA].other than the 2mm top ring.. all vary allot in $$ but for good reason..

i just dont get how one cyl can cost so much..and one so little..with no real specs given from the sellers or the ppl that make them...

if you have any comments...or know something i dont about these cyls..fill me in..
choosing pistions is easy..i just need to find some cyls...
and then we have the nickkies... but thats a whole nother ball game.

let me hear what you gotta say.
thanks
Cale

[AlanU]

The autocrafts have very little fins to cool the cylinders.

I've been using the AA true forged for 1 year so far and the wear pattern on the cylinders looks great and most of the cross hatch is gone. Thats the grant rings biting well getting good cylinder seal.

If your in the realm of 84mm stroke and below the standard length cylinders will work just fine. I guess larger than 86mm will be advised to use longer century cylinders  but I bet AA has them in the longer version aswell.

If you want to spend more money for autocraft cylinders go for it. Their kits come with weiscos and the entire hardware but for a street motor with some street miles on them you'll be gettin pretty hot.

A cima cylinder will take alot of abuse and if those grenade it'll be more than likely caused by something else other than the cylinder.

If your gonna be abusing your cylinders MORE than Mike Lawless then you better NOT use AA forged pistons/cylinders. So in otherwords the AA's will do just fine.

Spend the bucks and get the JE or wiesco's if you feel bad vibes from the chinese AA's. If those AA's work for hundreds of people I dont see why not it wont work for you.



 

[Bruce]

.......from the chinese AA's.

AAs are made in India.

[Geoff]

Ummmm, They are made in China. We met with A&A while at the Sema show.

[Boost_Retard]

i can get a set of wiescos and centrurys for a just a little more than the AAs. but a wiesco and an AA cant be that much different..other than the 2mm top ring?

im gonna make a phone call to AA tomorow and ask about the new thick wall 92s that they have been talking about...if they make a run of those thats what i will go with for sure..

leave the case 90.5/92mm bore... trim down the thick wall 92 (same as 94) to slide into the 90.5/92 case hole..lots of meat on case...thick cylinders.. and 94mm bore head...

i wonder how a wedge port head would work with a 92 mm bore..that had the 94OD..
they only make them in 94 bore for a reason im sure..i wonder if it would cause problems with the chamber..i hope not..cuz if that would work..thats what i am gonna do.

Cale

[Tom H.]

AAs pistons are pretty much a china copy of a Wiesco.  Material- who really knows.

AA and Century barrels (the same manufacturer I've heard), softer than a Cima/mahle is what I've heard thru the grapevine. If Alan's have lost the cross hatch, hmmm, maybe some proof?

Price differences between Mahle, Century, AA, LA Sleeve, Pauter, Autocraft- volume, material, labor costs, duties.

I'm running AAs in Cima barrels in the split. Would I run a lot of boost on a LN nickie? only if THEY knew what they would hold from experience.

[Boost_Retard]

i hear ya on the nickkies..as great as they may be...at over 600 bucks a cylinder i think i would have to kill myself if i wrecked one.

i wonder how the AA cyls would do after a little cryo treating.

Cale

[Bruce]

Ummmm, They are made in China. We met with A&A while at the Sema show.

That must be the \"other\" AA that makes pistons.  Here's the one I thought were making ours:

AA Industries  
A factory in india, manufacturing cylinder liners, iron Piston Rings, heavy engineering goods, industrial equipments, industrial goods factory with well equipped tool room and machine shop & industry in ghaziabad.

Location: D-120, Site 1, BSR Road Industrial Area , Ghaziabad, Uttar Pradesh, India, 201 009
 
 

[Cameron]

If your in the realm of 84mm stroke and below the standard length cylinders will work just fine. I guess larger than 86mm will be advised to use longer century cylinders  but I bet AA has them in the longer version aswell.

 

Adding to Alan's comments;
I don't know about other manufacturers, but Century cylinders are over 0.800\" longer than stock. Excellent for long stroke / rod combinations. But they will have to be custom fit for your application. And from my own experience, I thought they were actually a harder material than the Cimas.

[Boost_Retard]

Hey Cameron

I hear you do allot of machine work..whats your oppinion on cutting down a 94mm cyl at the case end to install into a 90.5/92 bore?

i have talked to some serious turbo racers and they have all said that this is the best bet for the strongest case possible (if using VW block) and that the part of the cyl in the case really does nothing more than align it with the block..and that it does not need to be that thick..

seeing as whatever cyls i use..will need to be cut to length..and my case is already 90.5/92mm cut..i figure might as well trim the cyls to fit that case..instead of cutting the case again..

can you do this kinda work?

and thanks for the heads up on the centurys.

Cale

[Boost_Retard]

Lets throw another cyl  into the mix! Looks like Jay Cee is making CAST aluminum nikasil plated cylinders now!

800 bucks for type 1 94mm..they also make 101.6 for type 1 style motors..and all the normal type 4 stuff..

cheaper than a LN set..but now your dealing with a cast cyl VS a billet..

its good to see that people are actually thinking and making something that really will make a difference .
Air cooled...less heat... MORE BOOST they look like a good idea seeing as the porsche nickies were cast..dunno about overall quality but the idea is a good one.

200 bucks a cyl aint as bad as 600.

Cale

[Cameron]

Hi Cale,
I can cut cylinders, but prefer not to. Usually people cut down 94 cylinders for a 90.5 bore because that is what their case is already cut for, and they don't want to split the case to put in the bigger bore. What is stronger, magnesium or steel? I think it does weaken things, and it makes parts hard to replace.

What stroke / rod combination are you planning to use? Why do you need cylinders cut shorter? Stock length cylinders should be good for a stroke up to 84mm. At 86mm things get questionable. 88mm and bigger, you need longer cylinders.

You want to go fast? Look at AlanU's motor.

[Tom H.]

Rocky Jennings can shorten cylinders and is close and quick. Engine Machine Services can also do it. I have dealt with both and can recommend them for just about any VW machine work I can imagine.  

[CHEECH]

Here are pics of some of Cales new motor parts...





86 stroke crank

[Boost_Retard]

Thats the parts i have...i have had them sitting in a box for quite a few months now...and seeing as i am building the baja again i figure i better get a big motor built before i go and do something stupid like turbo my golf motor thats in it..altho im sure thats the better idea...i just cant bring myself to sell this stuff.

i dont really think its a matter of whats stronger or weaker (magVSsteel) im not cutting my case for 94s. there are many reasons why i think its a bad idea...i just wanted to know if you could trim them down for me..It sounds like you can, but its a PITA    But thanks for letting me know.

and im not looking to have a stock length cyl cut down shorter...im looking to have a long cyl (like a centruy) cut down to the correct length to fit my application. what ever length that may be..i wont know untill i moch up the motor .

this motor is not gonna be for drag racing..lots of shit and abuse in the bush..far away from tow trucks or any help at times...i need to make it as powerfull as possible while keeping things sane in the reliability department.

[josh]

link

aren't these 94's already cut to fit in a 90.5/92 case? if not I know I've seen them somewhere pre done.

[Cameron]

i dont really think its a matter of whats stronger or weaker (magVSsteel) im not cutting my case for 94s. there are many reasons why i think its a bad idea...i just wanted to know if you could trim them down for me..It sounds like you can, but its a PITA    But thanks for letting me know.

 

Oh, I can cut your cylinders to length, and to whatever diameter you want.
I just want you to be aware of what you're getting yourself into.

BTW, it looks like you have invested in some nice parts. What brand crank?

[CHEECH]

Pauter crank  

[Boost_Retard]

Thats a pauter preped \"a\" race case or so they call it..
the crank is a type 1/type 1 std/std 86mm pauter rev true
the rods are the 4130 pauter X beam 5.5\" VW journal..
and the rockers are pauter 1.3 needle bearing roller tip billets..

i have had these parts for a little while now..just waiting to find a way to build a motor with them..that will last..
i have pauter cam and head studs and push rods and lifters also..i just need cyls and heads..
Mostly the case and the cylinders have prevented me from building this thing..

once i come up with a good combo..it will get done..kinda wish i had type 4 mains though

Cale

[babyblueoval]

Cale,
I would guess you already know this, but AJ Simms offers the Cima 94's cut down for the 90.5 hole. He is a firm believer in using this setup for the added meat on the case around the cylinder holes.
He has them for $239 with Cima pistons that he balances. I don't know if he offers them as cylinders only but he is amazingly easy to talk to so it would be easy to find out.

Jim