Author Topic: Clutch Choices... (Read 3157 times)

Chris · « **on:** June 28, 2009, 02:48:47 PM »

I have asked this before but cant find the thread, but I need to do something about the clutch in my car, I have gone thru 4 in 3 years with only about 30 1/4 mile passes.

I have a 2100lb Kennedy Stage 2 pressure plate and was using the daiken disc but I keep going thru them, what do you suggest?

Thanks

red snapper · « **Reply #1 on:** June 28, 2009, 04:37:33 PM »

Thats hard to believe that you have done 30 passes. I didnt even know you still had the car.

neil68 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2009, 05:30:19 PM »

I've been running the Berg dual-friction disc with good success for over four years, 200+ passes plus street driving...it still seems good as new. It's a Centerforce disc made from an OEM Sachs Brazilian disc.

Darren Dilley · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2009, 06:28:40 PM »

put a black magic in it..

red snapper · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2009, 06:34:07 PM »

Im no expert but, with such a light car, do you really need a 2100lb clutch? I have a 1700lb kennedy in both of my cars and no problems at all. Just a thought.

Chris · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2009, 06:52:00 PM »

i dont know what to say, I burned up a 1700 so I went to the 2100 and it was good but I think the daiken disc is crap, it doesnt help that i am not getting water on the tires when I go for my burnout...

Trevor P · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2009, 09:04:29 PM »

The ACE copperhead seems to be a good choice for many. Whenever I get my car together I can actually give 1st hand experience on the matter.

Bruce · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2009, 01:24:45 AM »

Quote from: Darren Dilley DVKK on June 28, 2009, 06:28:40 PM

put a black magic in it..

Oooh, are you mad at him or something?

nivag · « **Reply #8 on:** June 29, 2009, 08:13:47 AM »

copperhead

Cameron · « **Reply #9 on:** June 29, 2009, 08:19:07 AM »

I have been using the Berg/CenterForce discs for some time. They seem to hold up well.
As far as I can tell visually, the Berg disc and the Black Magic disc are the same, except the friction materials are on opposite sides.
I also had a lot of luck with stock German Sachs discs.
I never had any luck with Daiken discs.

Anybody know what Alan U is using? Now there is a hard working disc!

Also.... make sure your clutch surface to pressure plate seating height is set correctly. 21mm IIRC.

buddy boy · « **Reply #10 on:** June 29, 2009, 10:27:51 AM »

a flux capacitor ?....The flux capacitor requires 1.21 gigawatts of electrical power to operate.

jim martin · « **Reply #11 on:** June 29, 2009, 07:41:59 PM »

hey Chris .
maybe explain gone thru .??
slipping , braking , chattering etc etc .
then we can get you sorted out better .

for those who don't know me i continue to target street /strip performance .and one set-up i have no problem highly recomending is a stage 2 kennedy pressure plate and the gene berg disc , its been awhile but the disc was a solid hub and solid material on the p.p side and had 8 pucks on the back , possible part # 104 ? .
anyway this clutch set-up for the first 10 min was very aggresive as all new applications are .and then became smooth as butter on the street and in a 1850 lb car pulled the wheels every time .that clutch combo took more street /strip abuse than i could ever tell you .and in my opinion is the perfect set-up for street / strip use with up to a 50-60 shot of nitrous. with that set-up i tried both the long and short clutch arms and i would recomend the short arm .

if you need more info on set-up drop me a line a have a few more tricks

Chris · « **Reply #12 on:** June 29, 2009, 10:03:31 PM »

every setup I have had has slipped and burned, and jim we all know who you are....

Trevor P · « **Reply #13 on:** June 29, 2009, 10:46:55 PM »

Quote from: VWChris on June 29, 2009, 10:03:31 PM

every setup I have had has slipped and burned, and jim we all know who you are....

Were all these with Daikin discs and the same pressure plate? Cameron brings up a good point with the surface height of the flywheel.
Have you checked the PP to see if it's coned/warped?

Darren Dilley · « **Reply #14 on:** June 29, 2009, 11:17:43 PM »

in my 55 i am running a stage 2 with a black magic ... yes it might be a bit hard on the tranny.... but i think with chris car...its being usedon the track and would be a good choice for his car . chris, if you are looking for parts i have a new copper head disc , new daiken disc ,two new stage 2 clutchs
if you want to work a trade on some labour on the house

jim martin · « **Reply #15 on:** June 29, 2009, 11:23:20 PM »

Quote from: VWChris on June 29, 2009, 10:03:31 PM

every setup I have had has slipped and burned, and jim we all know who you are....

aww thanks i was feeling lonely.

i'm trying to remember your set-up .but there are alot of things that can burn out a clutch quickly .

i brought this topic up when i was looking for a new clutch to handle 300 plus H.P and still remain streetable
before settling on my current set-up .
i just reread through this and there is some good info that may help
http://ultimateaircooled.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=2710.0

Bruce · « **Reply #16 on:** June 30, 2009, 06:29:26 PM »

Quote from: Cameron on June 29, 2009, 08:19:07 AM

Also.... make sure your clutch surface to pressure plate seating height is set correctly. 21mm IIRC.

And check your pressure plate for flatness. Usually they go cone shape, then don't contact over most of the area.

When I had my flywheel's depth corrected to 21.0mm from about 21.8, the clutch grabbed noticeably better.

jim martin · « **Reply #17 on:** June 30, 2009, 09:04:13 PM »

Bruces comment reminded me of something else .finger height of the pressure plate needs to be level when bolted down as well as there is a height dimension of the contact area for the release bearing

Chris · « **Reply #18 on:** July 02, 2009, 05:13:37 PM »

Quote from: Darren Dilley DVKK on June 29, 2009, 11:17:43 PM

in my 55 i am running a stage 2 with a black magic ... yes it might be a bit hard on the tranny.... but i think with chris car...its being usedon the track and would be a good choice for his car . chris, if you are looking for parts i have a new copper head disc , new daiken disc ,two new stage 2 clutchs
if you want to work a trade on some labour on the house

ya I think I would like to give the copperhead a go

Im not quite sure I understand what you refer to on surface height on hte flywheel, what exactly am I measuring? The PP is new with only 8 passes on it, can I resurface it or is it done if its not flat?

Bruce · « **Reply #19 on:** July 02, 2009, 06:23:26 PM »

Measure the distance from the ledge where the pressure plate bolts onto, down to the disc surface. Almost always, this distance is larger than the spec of 21.0mm. The reason is, when a clutch shop resurfaces it, they touch down on the disc surface and zero their machine. Then they grind it until the whole surface is cleaned up. At that point, they read off how deep they ground it. Then they go up to the ledge for the pressure plate and grind off the same amount. The problem with this is that the disc surface gets worn down, and they are preserving this error for the flywheel's next life.
Then there's the really bad clutch shops that just reface the disc surface and not the ledge.

You can indeed resurface your pressure plate. In fact, once resurfaced, your pressure plate is BETTER than new. The iron shoe becomes dimensionally more stable after it's been heat cycled.

jim martin · « **Reply #20 on:** July 02, 2009, 07:32:23 PM »

with so much trouble with clutches i would really nail these 3 down .
Bruce gave you the 1ST which is pressure plate mounting surface to flywheel clutch contact surface (0.827").
the 2nd is to make sure the pressure plate fingers are level when bolted down and the and the 3rd is a measurement
from X point to the release bearing contact point of the collar on the pressure plate
Bruce should have this measurement , i know it is in the bently and berg tech book .

Chris · « **Reply #21 on:** July 05, 2009, 02:25:28 AM »

so my measurements were ok, i check the height from the flywheel surface to the ledge and it was 20.96mm with some variance up to 21mm, no areas over 21mm

I installed the copperhead clutch today and check the fingers of the pressure plate and they were all even after torquing the pressure plate down.

We shall see what happens.

Geoff · « **Reply #22 on:** July 05, 2009, 10:18:38 AM »

The copperhead should work fine, I have run the Centerforce/Berg disc for years and it has never let me down. The copperhead is a copy of that but with the material on oposite sides of the disc.

Good luck and lets see the wheels up!