Author Topic: Rag top install  (Read 36273 times)

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Offline Thomas

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Rag top install
« on: January 19, 2014, 02:23:40 PM »
Well here I go ..... starting to installing a rag top section in my 58 Beetle with minimal body and paint work. I'm posting this so that can I ask for advice along the way and maybe help others learn from my mistakes. I cut the rag section out of the roof clip with about 1"all the way around except of the rear part where I left more to help with the hole placements later. I started to trim away the top layer from the bottom layer as seen in the picture. This will give me something to weld against. I'm trimming it close enough so my seams will be hidden by the trim. I will post as I go along with this project.

58 Beetle

Offline josh

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2014, 08:30:56 PM »
Cool man! It's awesome when guys document the way they do stuff and post it so the pics can help others tackle a job they might of thought they couldn't handle.....until seeing how someone else did it.

 Right on!!
55 ragtop T1
56 kombi T2

Offline Thomas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2014, 05:34:37 PM »
Well got some work done on the sunroof this weekend. I got side tracked installing a sapphire I radio and antenna on the car. I figured drilling holes for the antenna would help prep me for cutting the big hole in the roof.

Got the clip all trimmed out  and ready to start working out location.

Looking for the nylon like strapping material in this picture. Does anyone know where I can pick some up?

I pick a colour for the roof but this has cause me to order a whole new interior to match the colour I picked for the roof. Being made for me at TMI right now.

58 Beetle

Offline Jeremy

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2014, 10:34:59 PM »
Looking good Thomas. Keep the updates coming.
'59 Beetle
'59 Single Cab

Offline bwaz

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2014, 09:08:13 AM »
you should just add this one to your garage Thomas ;)

http://www.vvwc.ca/modules.php?name=Forums&file=download&id=6225
brian waz

Offline josh

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 08:16:21 PM »
I just finished the 3 fold in my oval. The nylon you are asking about you can by from a fabric store...same shit as backpack straps. Although it was suggested to me to use 4" wide strips of the same material that the top is made of (called sonnetland?) A very tough fabric stayfast type with a rubber inside. Doesn't matter what it is really it just keeps the spacing between the rails even when operating roof. I'd use 1" backpack strap if I were you.
55 ragtop T1
56 kombi T2

Offline Thomas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2014, 06:01:53 PM »
Thanks Josh
I got all the assembly apart and ready for sand blasting. I managed to get it apart with only 2 broken fasteners. Even though I took pictures I was wondering if some one could direct me towards some good ligature on the assembly of the sunroof to help in the reassembly part of the job. Thanks Tom


58 Beetle

Offline silas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2014, 10:08:51 PM »
hey thomas…looking good, keep it up! you cutting a hole in the roof of your car = grande cojones!!! well done, it's all going to be worth it when you slide it back and go for a cruise!!  :cool:

as far as ragtop disasemble/assemble instructions…i was pretty close to certain that there was a section in the bentley manual i had for my 56, but i sold it with the car. after a quick search, it seems that it is covered in the bentley (up to '63? the years of the ragtop…all should be close to identical)…and this guy here on thesamba found scanned versions & posted what looks to be a fairly complete rendition…could use that or maybe borrow someones bentley...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_keywords=ragtop+an+manual%27

Offline Thomas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2014, 09:28:26 AM »
Thanks Silas, that will help. I notice that I'm missing piece 49. I'm assuming it goes on the underside of the roof when bolting down the back of the top. If anyone has one kicking around let me know or worst case I'm sure I can make something.

I have to give a shout out to Langley U blast as I was down there yesterday cleaning up all the parts. Their booth are big enough to even hold the roof clip. Nice people to deal with and the shop is kickass. They are going to expand soon and will have faculties to blast large objects. I got all the parts cleaned any painted yesterday. Hoping to have all in pieces in place so I can cut the hole in the roof by the Long weekend. I'm starting to dream at night about cutting that hole in the roof (or should I be saying night terrors).
58 Beetle

Offline josh

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2014, 03:00:53 PM »
a 2 fold is quite a bit different than the 3 fold I just did...rollers instead of sliders for example but the concept is the same
I.just studied the schematic and read the Bently and it.was.pretty straight forward. hardest part was stretching the outside cover and headliner well not hard but nerve racking cause once you punch holes.through the material there ain't no.going.bsck!!
just throw yourself into it and if and when you get stuck fire away some questions, I'll see if I can help
.
55 ragtop T1
56 kombi T2

Offline Thomas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2014, 08:58:21 AM »
So what is going to be the best tool for cutting the hole...jigsaw...zip cut...air shears....everything I read says something different. Looking for advice on this matter. Starting to measure it up for the weekend hole cutting. I have sent the family away for the weekend so if things go wrong I can be mad all by myself.
58 Beetle

Offline 57rubindub

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2014, 12:51:06 PM »
I would suggest a gager, a bottle of Jack and a tissue... youve got some pretty big cajones taking this on, Im in awe of your idea... chainsaw

Offline Thomas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2014, 10:54:04 AM »
Well tomorrow is the big day chainsaw. After a few days of trying to figure out how to transfer the information from the clip to the roof I had an idea at work last night. I work in a box plant and I thought if I built a box the same size as the out line of the inner hole I could transfer it over (some times you just got to think outside the box). It seem to work out good...well we will see tomorrow.


58 Beetle

Offline josh

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2014, 11:01:51 AM »
Nice box!  no big deal! jump in and don't look back. good call ditching th fam, smart move

ive never pulled off either but difference in doing the 2-3 fold graft is where u splice it. A 3 you peel off all the roof skin and plug weld the frame opening clamping from underside....The 2 don't you have to use some of the donor roof skin and butt weld the whole perimiter?  am i on track or way off? like I said, never done a ragtop graft.
If that is the case I'd trim donor back close so it sits flush square up and use a bunch of self tapper sheet metal screws zapped through both layers pulling down tight then take the thinnest zip wheel you can get cut through (some guys split the screws) be careful not to let disk lean or trail off making the slice wider than need be=less weld.  Some guys use one of those little air recip saws cause the blade is nice and thin and you have good control.....think I saw one of china's finest quality tools at princess auto for under $20 that might last long enough to make it 3/4 the way around your roof before the bearings implode :character0029:
55 ragtop T1
56 kombi T2

Offline Jerome

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2014, 09:08:02 PM »
With the 2 folds u do have to use the donor skin partially.  The opening is stamped as u can see in the pic.  I have a 2 fold graft in the works and am watching Thomas closely.  I am thinking of using structural adhesive to glue it to the underside of the oe skin. It will sit about 1mm lower than what it should.... But I think I can get away with that over warping the hell out of the skin from welding and then grinding welds and filling. I have a lot of experience with the structural glues at the bodshop I work at and think I can save a bunch of work possibly.... Anyone have any good reason why glueing to the underside will not work?
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Offline silas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2014, 11:04:12 PM »
right on Thomas! you can do it!! :rockon:

Offline Alisdair

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2014, 08:12:23 AM »
Great to see someone else doing this. I fitted a 63 top into my 66 a few years ago.
There's one little thing I'd like to point out before you start welding in the top.
BEFORE you do any welding  but after you cut the hole in the roof you need to weld in the corner supports FIRST
 The supports on your ragtop peice have been cut !!  Very easy to make and essential you fit them otherwise you will have flex in the roof.
Have a look at this video , press pause at 20 secs. Look at the corners and where the ragtop latches...you have to fit the corners first as there's  no way to do it afterwards.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zfLVqIjzXdI .


« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 08:16:30 AM by Alisdair »
66 ragtop bug, 55 Bugaudi 33 dodge 6

Offline Thomas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2014, 08:31:54 AM »
The roof clip that I removed the sunroof from had also been grafted in. It already had those supports cut off and I didn't notice any flex. I also was told that they were not necessary. Well will see as it would be hard for me to weld in at this point for me. Going out to measure again for the tenth time, say some prayers and see what happens.
58 Beetle

Offline Thomas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2014, 06:42:37 PM »
Here are some pictures from today.
Zinc spray weld paint as going to seam weld but will have the under skin to weld against.

Hole cut with jig saw. Left about 1/4" then I used a blending disk to finish it up and yes the full interior is still in.

Turned out to be close with only couple spots that have a little gap.

Looks like the trim should cover up the side welds.

next step will be welding one stitch at a time.
58 Beetle

Offline 70's Looker

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2014, 08:06:50 PM »
That's great thom! Keep going!
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Offline Jerome

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2014, 10:43:24 PM »
Looking good! Keep the post coming!
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Offline Thomas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2014, 06:11:53 PM »
Well the roof is tacked in. Now it is time to cut a bunch of coupons and practice my welding before going any further on this project as I got no room for any mistakes on this job.
58 Beetle

Offline Jeremy

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2014, 10:47:02 PM »
Looks good Thomas. The hard part is done.  :rockon: :rockon:
'59 Beetle
'59 Single Cab

Offline Thomas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2014, 07:50:16 AM »
Looking at ordering the new headliner and trying to decide what style to get. I have installed a vinyl one before myself and I'm thinking of going with the Mohair. Has anyone had experience with installing one of these as I want to know if this is something I can tackle myself or should get someone to do it for me. If it is something I should have someone else do could you recommend someone. Thanks Tom
58 Beetle

Offline Jeremy

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2014, 11:22:49 AM »
Talk to Josh on this site. He just did one in his '55.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 11:44:22 AM by Jeremy »
'59 Beetle
'59 Single Cab

Offline Thomas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2014, 03:51:19 PM »
Well spent a couple hours welding today. The wind was blowing away my gas so I had to build a shelter... don't know if using a flammable material was to smart but it worked.

Stitch welding takes patience and it was testing mine. A few more to go to fill it all in.

So far except for one spot I have manage it keep it so I will be able to cover the sides.

Hoping to do more tomorrow.
58 Beetle

Offline josh

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2014, 03:57:08 PM »
Looks great man!!!!


Talk to Josh on this site. He just did one in his '55.

true story! couple days ago I posted a big long reply but apparently it didn't stick? sorry.....headliners really ain't that tough just gotta plan everything out before cracking out the glue or scissors!  you only have one shot so make sure you have all your ducks in a row and if I can suggest one thing is wear a proper respirator when doing the gluing! gets pretty dank inside the car spraying that crap! Here's a couple tips....

-buy a $20 siphon feed gun from princess auto or kms and a couple quarts of GOOD contact cement.....advice from the pro's the aresol cans are thinned down with solvents so they spray easy.....nowhere near the holding power and will fail in the summer.
-keep sharp scissors and lots of olfa blades handy
-really take time before you slice window openings and such.....you will be surprised how the material stretches.
-go to office depot or Walmart and buy a few bags of the Black spring clips in different sizes....more the better (minimum 50)
-go easy on the glue....it WILL bleed though the cloth! The factory only glued around the edges.

I'm not sure because I've never used a "mohair" type liner (mine was a $400 wool one) but I've read that the cheap material is super easy to mess up cause the fluff on the surface rubs off if you look at it sideways! so handle as little as possible!

Good luck and if you get stuck pm me and I can try and help ya out
55 ragtop T1
56 kombi T2

Offline Thomas

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2014, 04:03:56 PM »
Thanks Josh. After much though I'm going with the off white vinyl. I have done a vinyl one before but I was the one piece and no sunroof. I was thinking of buying a video that is out on how to do it. Not sure how helpful it is.
58 Beetle

Offline josh

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Re: Rag top install
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2014, 06:32:49 PM »
Thanks Josh. After much though I'm going with the off white vinyl. I have done a vinyl one before but I was the one piece and no sunroof. I was thinking of buying a video that is out on how to do it. Not sure how helpful it is.

Right on, blow dryer work well to soften the vinyl up and you can load the glue on it without worry! I wouldn't bother with the vid....I considered it too but I watched that dude that made it ask a bunch of questions on how to do em on the samba then the next thing you know he's pushing videos on the same site that he got free advice on......now he's acting like some seasoned vet making money off people who were in same position as he was 6 months earlier? over reacting yeah probably but I wasn't gonna give him any of my money!
55 ragtop T1
56 kombi T2

Stephan Schmidt

Re: Rag top install
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2014, 08:14:49 AM »
Wow, brave!  I'm sure the car will be much more enjoyable afterwards!  Keep up the good work!