King and link questions

[brisland]

  I recently bought an all original low mile 65 beetle and I installed a 2" narrowed beam and 2 1/2" cast drop spindles.  The previous owner had all new king and link pins installed with maybe 500 miles on them before I bought the car.

Here's my dilemma:

    Before I took the front end apart, I noticed the drivers side spindle had vertical play in the link pin (rocked upwards and downwards 1/8")).  The previous owner had both sides replaced so I figured they must have damaged the pin or bushings in the process.  After I pressed the stock spindle and carrier apart I put the king pin back in the bushings and it was tight, the same as the passenger side.  I reassembled the new dropped spindle and carrier (thinking the stock spindle must have been worn out somehow)  and had the same amount of play as the stock spinlde and carrier did.  My Dealership Service Manual talks about a thicker thrust washer, to be used if one encounters excessive end play.  It seems the play is coming from between the carrier and spindle, so I would assume (hate to use that word) I need to use one of these.  When I assembled the carrier, thrust washer, friction washer and spindle together before pressing the king pin in, it was loose compared to the passenger side I did previously.  

Has anyone used a thicker thrust washer before?  Where can I find one?  I was tempted to use a link pin shim between the thrust washer and friction washer...anyone tried this?

The passenger side spindle and carrier assembly seems very tight, does it just need to be worn in?

Also should I run 4 shims on either side of the link pins as a starting point?

How would I know to shim more, if the car pulls one way while driving?

Any help would be greatly appreciated
-Brian-

[pittwagen]

Looks like all the suspension gurus are otherwise occupied so here are my comments.

Hopefully you have access to a digital caliper or something equivalent.  Have you checked and compared the thickness of the dropped spindles (through the king pin area) comparing left and right sides.  Same with the link pin carrier (inside from lower to upper king pin bore).  Assuming the link pin bushings are in good shape on the link pin carrier in question and when you mount the link pins in the bushings, are the pins the same distance apart when measured on both sides of the left carrier.  In other words, is the carrier bent which could account for the sloppiness?

If the spindles are the same, the link pin carrier is not bent but the distance between the upper and lower king pin bores is greater on the left side, the carrier has probably been hammered out over time perhaps due to poor lubrication or broken or missing fiber washers etc.  Could be other reasons too.  You just may have to buy a new carrier but I would ask for a measurement of a new one to compare it to yours just to make sure you are solving the problem.  Any reputable vendor should be prepared to do that for you.

I'll try and find some specs on the link pin carrier dimensions.

Now measure the thickness of your thrust washer.  Our good friends at CIP1 show a thrust washer on their site but with no thickness shown.  Call or email their tech support and ask if they would mind measuring the thickness of one for you.  Originally you could buy different thicknesses of thrust washers (3.5-4.3mm or so).  Perhaps someone on this site might have some of different thicknesses.  I looked in all my usual places and couldn't find any.  Maybe the CIP1 washer will be thicker and solve your problem.  You'll have to let us know the thickness of your thrust washer.

With respect to the link pin shims, here is a photo (courtesy of the Samba) showing how to properly place the shims.



Once this is all resolved, you will need to check the toe in as per the manual.  Are you lowered front and rear or just in the front.  If just in the front you may need some caster shims on the lower front beam as well.  A professional 4 wheel alignment may be in order if you don't know the vehicle history!

My thoughts.  If I have missed anything I'm sure we will hear.   

[brisland]

Awesome info thanks!

   Its been 18 years since I last did some King and Link spindles and had no problems.  I think I paid $400 for the dropped spindles back then and was a little learey of the quality of the $150 current ones.  I was thinking the same thing at work today that I should measure those distances and see if either the new spindle is out of whack (poor machining) or the carrier is bent.

Someone suggested over on the Samba to use the link pin bushings as a shim (he claims he has had to do this twice before) between the thrust washer and fiber washer.  MY Bentley manual says that there are various thickness's of thrust washers available for this very problem (no longer the case apparently).  I also found the chart on setting the Link Pin shims too.

Thanks again!

[pittwagen]

Here are the dimensions of the thrust washers courtesy of the Samba.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=161281&highlight=king+pin+thrust+washer

I have to believe that someone on this site has a thicker thrust washer for you but that play sounds like something is not right.  I am not absolutely sure but from what I have found so far, the allowable play between the link pin carrier and the spindle is .006.

Unfortunately with the lower prices have come a decreasing level of quality.  We all have our share of horror stories from the last few years.  I guess if we keep buying the crap, we have no one to blame but ourselves!!

Keep us posted on what you find out.

[brisland]

Problem solved...

Through more research I found there is two types of king pin bushing reams...adjustable and non adjustable and that sometimes the adjustable reams become sloppy and even on the smallest setting they ream the bushings too much ...I'm not sure what one the previous owner used when he installed them but after disassembling the drivers side again I found that the bushings were 0.010 over the king pin size.  Thinking that this was excessive I pressed in a new set of bushings and took it to a local VW guy and had him ream the the new bushings.  I also was able to find a 0.005 thicker friction washer as well.  I reassembled all the parts and bingo it works perfectly.

Thanks for everyone's help!